Research On Religion » Redemption Church Series

Matt Boswell on What Pastors Don’t Want to Reveal

tonygill — Sun, 27 Apr 2014 08:00:20 +0000

If there is one person in church on Sunday who seems to “have it altogether,” it is probably the preacher standing up in front of the congregation, right? How easily we forget that clergy are people too and they have many of the same struggles that their congregants do, plus a few that might just be unique to the profession. Pastor Matt Boswell of Redemption Church in scenic Duvall, WA opens up about the challenges he faces being a “man of the cloth.” Our conversation is based upon his enormously successful blog posting entitled “Ten Things Pastors Don’t Want to Reveal.” Throughout our discussion, we reveal them all.

Pastor Matt is not new to the program as we have followed his adventures in previous podcasts in our Redemption Church Series (see below), but he hasn’t been on the show for over a year. The reason for this prolonged absence is that one of his congregants has been M.I.A. for the past year and the show starts with a confessional — Tony admits to not having been in attendance all that often. We discuss this typical challenge for many middle-aged folks and their ministers, and then use this as a platform to discuss what has been happening to this relatively new church over the past year including a few personnel changes, as well as the passing of a cherished member.

We then jump into our discussion of the ten things that worry and bother the clergy, but that the clergy are often afraid to reveal. This list includes:

Pastors take it personally when you leave the church;
They feel pressure to perform week after week;
The clergy struggle to get their worth from ministry;
Ministers regularly think about quitting;
They say they are transparent, but they might actually be opaque;
Pastors measure themselves by the numbers (attendance and finances);
They spend more time discouraged than encouraged;
They worry about what you think;
Clergy struggle with competition and jealousy;
And they often feel like they failed you more than they have helped.

Although certainly a bummer of a list, and probably not the best topics for dinner conversation, Matt keeps it light by discussing how he copes with all of these different challenges. The conversation remains upbeat with Tony comparing the pastorate to his own teaching profession at times, and making the occasional odd reference to characters in Winnie the Pooh. Recorded: April 23, 2014.

“Ten Things Pastors Don’t Want to Reveal” on Pastor Matt TV.

Match Coffee (the site of this podcast).

RELATED PODCASTS

Matt Boswell on Starting a Church (Really Fast!)

Matt Boswell on Building Redemption Church, Part II

Matt Boswell on Redemption Church, One Year Later

Ryan Habig on Music Ministry and “With Us” (a Habig original song)

Scott Thompson on Youth Ministry

Who Would Jesus Vote For? A Redemption Church Small Group

Larry Osborne on Church Finances and Growth

Mike McBride on the Economics of Religious Leadership

Thom S. Rainer on the Baptist Convention and Church Health

Who Would Jesus Vote For? A Redemption Church Small Group

tonygill — Mon, 29 Oct 2012 08:00:39 +0000

Visit our Facebook Fan Page to see how this group of evangelicals are planning to vote in the 2012 presidential election.

Scholars have long known that religious belief and practice plays a salient role in determining one’s voting behavior. Those scholars have relied upon opinion polls and statistical analysis to flesh this out, though rarely do we get a glimpse into the actual thought process of how religious folks think about their politics. In this very unusual podcast, we open that “black box” to listen in on how a group of sixteen evangelical churchgoers and their pastor talk about politics with a presidential election coming up. These folks belong to Redemption Church in Duvall, WA (a church featured several times on this show), and they are participating in one fo the church’s “small groups” (or “regroup”) known as Theology on Tap, wherein interested church members gather in a local bar, drink beer, and discuss some heady theological issues. The topic for this evening’s discussion was “Who would Jesus vote for?” The conversation defies a typical linear narrative (as do many small group discussions), so we won’t provide one here. However, become a “fly on the wall” to this exchange of ideas and be prepared to hear some interesting and suprising statements from the congregants. The participants hit on topics ranging from whether an evangelical can conscientiously vote for a Mormon, to figuring out what constitutes “moral” issues as compared to “policy” issues, to why white evangelicals vote differently than African-American evangelicals. One of the members even makes the bold claim that Jesus would vote Republican, though he himself would vote Democrat. Hear the surprising justification for this that harkens back to the economist Simon Kuznets! Near the end of the discussion (at about the 57 minute mark), Pastor Matt Boswell claims that Jesus wouldn’t vote for anybody, but for use regular folks that is a cop-out for not voting, to which an audience member agreed. Listen in to how this evangelical dilemma is resolved, with the most profound answer of the evening coming by one of the participants at the 1 hour and 7 minute mark. If anything, this will disavow you of your notion that all rural evangelicals are just a bunch of dumb hillbillies. Or maybe not. The discussion is passionate, but at the end they all raise a glass and proclaim their true love for Jesus, their church, and one another. Go to our Facebook Fan Page and “like” us to find out the poll results of how these backwoods evangelicals are planning to cast their vote and possibly for a little discussion of what happened at the “after party.” Special thanks to the Duvall Grill and Tap Room for hosting this event and allowing us to record. Recorded: October 16, 2012.

Duvall Grill & Tap Room.

RELATED PODCASTS

Gerald de Maio on the Electoral Religion Gap.

Corwin Smidt on Religion, Elections, and the God Gap.

Ken Wald on the Puzzling Politics of American Jews.

The Redemption Church podcast series. (Learn about this fascinating church, the spiritual home of your host.)

Matt Boswell on Redemption Church, One Year Later

tonygill — Mon, 24 Sep 2012 08:00:56 +0000

One year ago, we interviewed Pastor Matt Boswell of Redemption Church who was part of a small team that created a church in one week’s time. We return to the scene of our initial interview — Match Coffee and Wine Bar in Duvall, WA — to see what has changed over the course of the year. This is a fascinating interview that provides insights into how churches grow and change. The podcast starts with Pastor Matt getting on Tony for not having attended church in a couple months. Hear your faithful host’s pathetic explanation as he tries to weasel out of responsibility for his spiritual growth. Nonetheless, this exchange opens the door to talk about church attendance and how it may ebb and flow over the course of a year. After a gangbuster opening week back in early October 2011, with standing room only, attendance at Redemption Church (RC) has settled into a typical rhythm. Matt talks about how the Pacific Northwest has a church attendance pattern that is different than other places in the United States with the typical member coming to Sunday services twice a month. We hypothesize about reasons why this might be. The other large issue that comes up early in the podcast deals with the logistics of a church that doesn’t have a “traditional church building.” Whereas RC does have administrative offices located above the local hardware store, the congregation meets in the town’s public high school, a space that is only available to them for a couple hours every weekend. The importance of “space” and “mission” is discussed at length. Whereas many people do like to have, and are comforted by, a stable location that they know they can go to (which is the role of the administrative offices), one of the initial goals of RC was to become a “church without walls,” wherein the pastoral staff has to go out into different parts of the town to work. Matt talks about how he often works on his Sunday sermons in a local bar, often attracting the attention of the patrons who find it odd that a member of the clergy would be hanging out with beer drinkers. This then moves to a discussion of how RC has structured its outreach and the different means with which they seek to attract people to the Word of God. Tony also brings up the issue of weddings and funerals and how these things are managed. After all, not many people like to get married in a high school auditorium, or make their last stop on earth be the same place where the senior class performed “Grease” the night before. Matt gives his take on where the wedding scene is at and how RC manages weddings and (potentially) funeral. (RC has not had the occasion of a funeral in its first year of existence.) He also shares the most unusual place he married a couple. The issue of “space” also brings up one of Tony’s most vexing questions: Has anyone in the “packed tight” high school auditorium ever spilled the sacramental grape juice when it is passed around? And what about those popcorn buckets? After answering this deeply philosophical question, the conversation then skips to a “church tour” that the RC pastoral staff took to Spokane, WA to learn about how other churches operate. This is a fascinating comparative study of different denominations at different points in their life span. Matt discusses how he learned about the importance of a church having a “vision.” This discussion would be of great interest to any clergy member or those interested in what makes for a successful congregation. We finish up with Matt’s reflections on what he learned over the past year, including both the triumphs and the mistakes, and a “lightning round” of questions that I asked to other guests including preaching politics, pacifism, and fighting in the US War of Independence. Recorded with ambient sounds of Match Coffee and Wine Bar: September 19, 2012.

RELATED LINKS

Redemption Church website.

Matt Boswell on Building Redemption Church, Part II.

Scott Thompson on Youth Ministry.

Ryan Habig on Music Ministry (including the soon-to-be hit single “With Us” for free!).

Joe Fuiten on Clergy & Politics.

Should Christians Have Fought in the US War of Independence?

Ron Mock on Pacifism, War, and Terrorism.

Matt Boswell on Building Redemption Church, Part II

tonygill — Mon, 20 Feb 2012 09:00:36 +0000

What does it take to create a church? In fall of 2011, we visited with Pastor Matt Boswell of Redemption Church in Duvall, WA. Matt and a number of other folks were charged with setting up a church within one week’s time and we had the opportunity to talk with him just a few days after they accomplished this seemingly impossible mission. In this interview, we return to Pastor Matt and first ask him to reflect upon that first chaotic week to see if he would have done anything differently. It turns out that with a few months of 20/20 hindsight that they would not have done anything differently and Matt talks about how God’s hand played a huge role in accomplishing the organizational tasks needed gather 500+ people for a Sunday service. We turn our attention then to the next month. After getting a chance to breathe a bit and catch up on some sleep, the leaders of Redemption Church were faced with the challenge of establishing by-laws, determining the requirements for church membership, and taking care of finding space to conduct their youth ministry and other small groups (cleverly called “re:groups” by Redemption Church). We start out by talking about the importance of having a permanent meeting place and how the church moved from meeting temporarily in whatever place they could find (including the homes and barns of members) to a more permanent location. Tony presses Matt about whether or not the church will have to move out of the high school auditorium eventually and the merits about having a permanent structure that is both the Sunday meeting place and weekday offices. Matt, who recognizes the high school is not a permanent solution, provides some interesting ruminations about what the future physical location of Redemption Church will look like, including the importance of making the building “uncomfortable” for the pastoral staff so that they don’t become too isolated behind church walls. Along the way, Matt tells some stories about how he had been “accidently” ministering in a local tavern and what this taught him about being a “church without walls.” Our discussion then veers towards the discussion of by-laws including how the church chooses its elders, trains them, establishes requirements for membership. Tony and Matt then share the story of how the congregation dealt with having Christmas services at a public high school and what happened when the power went out about a half hour before Christmas Day services. The interview ends with a brief discussion on the merits of denominationalism and whether or not Redemption Church has plans to join an established denomination. This is a great podcast for pastors or individuals who are interested in the background organization of churches. Recorded: January 9, 2012.

RELATED LINKS

Redemption Church homepage.

Redemption Church Facebook page.

Research on Religion Facebook page.

RELATED PODCASTS

Matt Boswell on Starting a New Church (Really Fast).

Scott Thompson on Youth Ministry.

Ryan Habig on Music Ministry (includes the free original song “With Us”).

Scott Thompson on Youth Ministry

tonygill — Mon, 23 Jan 2012 09:00:27 +0000

Are the kids alright? Scott Thompson, the youth pastor at Redemption Church in Duvall (WA), says “Yes! The kids are alright!” And so begins our discussion of what it takes to minister to kids as they move through their teen years. Tony presses Scott to explain why he was drawn to this particular type of ministry and in doing so we learn about Scott’s upbringing and how he eventually became involved as a youth minister by his late 30s, making it a paid career by his late 40s. Our conversation then turns to why youth programs tend to change as students enter their “middle school” years (roughly age 11 – 13) and how older teen groups are also different. Scott reveals a number of the challenges facing individuals in this age range, but through surveying and talking with kids has found that their biggest concern is how they appear to their peers; building and maintaining friendships among kids their age often trumps other serious issues that they may be facing at shool or home. Scott then details some of the ways that Redemption Church’s two youth ministries — one for middle schooler and the other for high schoolers — works with students. We discuss the importance of volunteers, weekly meetings, fun weekend outings, and summer camps. Scott reveals what goes on during a typical Wednesday evening youth group. In addition to fun socializing activities and a general discussion session (or sermon), youth are put into small discussion groups to reflect upon that week’s message in relation to their own lives. We also find out about some of the more popular weekend events such as sleeping on the streets of Duvall and “ice blocking.” Scott shares the general ideas that motivate these events and recounts some of the more memorable moments he has had. We also discuss the role of parents in youth ministry and discuss some of the legal protections a church needs in working with youth. Finishing up the interview we have a special guest — Victor Gill — who gives us an idea what a youth ministry looks like from the eyes of an eleven year old. Recorded: December 6, 2011.

RELATED LINKS

Redemption Church (Duvall, WA) and the Redemption Church Facebook page.

The 412 Youth Group at Redemption Church.

The Revolution Youth Group at Redemption Church.

RELATED PODCASTS

Matt Boswell on Starting a New Church.

Ryan Habig on Music Ministry (includes a free musical song).

Byron Johnson on Religion and Delinquency.

Ryan Habig on Music Ministry and “With Us” (a Habig original song)

tonygill — Mon, 19 Dec 2011 07:00:14 +0000

Hear the internet premier of Ryan Habig’s “With Us” and, as a free added bonus, hear some of the folks from Redemption Church (RC) sing “Oh Come All Ye Faithful” just in time for the holiday season. Ryan, the music (and everything else) pastor at Redemption Church in Duvall, WA shares his thoughts on why music is essential to worship and why he walked down this path. Tony asks if he ever gets nervous on stage, why he sometimes closes his eyes, and how the venue can affect the whole dynamic of worship. This is the second episode in an ongoing look at Redemption Church, a startup church in a rural town in Western Washington (the first being our interview with the lead pastor, Matt Boswell). We explore Ryan’s upbringing to see what motivated his love of music and why he chose to major in this at Azusa Pacific University in California. Ryan reflects upon his training at APU and gives us an idea of how well his college focus on music and ministry has helped in his current position. He then leads us through a typical work week as musical pastor sharing how he selects the music team, chooses the music, obtains copyright permissions, and organizes the practice. Add to this all his other duties managing the church website and getting the graphics set up for the Sunday service and you get a better picture what goes on behind the scenes to make a church service for a congregation of 500 meeting in a high school auditorium successful. And at the very end of the podcast, Ryan talks about the motivation behind his original composition “With Us” and then does an acoustic version of this song. Music industry reps take note; this happens to be one of RC’s most popular songs… and for good reason. As a special holiday encore, Tony convinces Ryan and a group of congregants at the RC office to sing along to a standard Christmas hymn. In this podcast you will also learn how useful Tony’s college philosophy courses were and what instrument he used to play (and why). Recorded: December 6, 2011.

RELATED LINKS

Redemption Church website.

RELATED PODCASTS

Robert Coote on the 27 Most Popular Hymns and Amazing Grace.

Jim Houser on the Contemporary Christian Music Industry.

Matt Boswell on Starting a New Church (Really Fast!)

tonygill — Mon, 10 Oct 2011 08:00:49 +0000

What would you do if you thought you had about 80 people willing to attend church services but you had no meeting place, no money, no legal status, and no name? Do you think you could pull everything together in a week’s time? That is what Matt Boswell and a small team of individuals did with Redemption Church (the eventual name) in Duvall, WA. In fact, they went from 0 (money and members) to 562 attendees in just six days. No name, no money, no organization…no worries! We talk with Matt about all the organizational details that went in to this endeavor, highlighting what challenges face any start-up religious organization, but putting it into a super-charged dash to get things up and running before any momentum was lost. Matt goes into detail about the first hour of planning on a Monday morning, showing how this small group meeting in Lisa Bailey’s living room had to figure out: 1) structure; 2) mission; and 3) marketing. The structural logistics included getting a tax identification code and insurance so that they could secure a meeting space for the coming Sunday. We talk about the importance of a building, and with only a few vague ideas about where to meet Matt goes through the process of securing the local high school auditorium and additional rooms for the kid’s ministry. Obtaining insurance became critical because without insurance they could not easily rent a space. Determing on a name that reflected the mission of the church is also discussed, and Matt covers how important a name is to the identity of the church. We talk about why “Redemption” was chosen and why a more “churchy” name (as compared to more secular alternatives) might have an impact on how the congregants view themselves and who would attend services. The idea of missional identity is also discussed as Matt shares why he sees it as important that the church be in the community and not separate from it, a somewhat easy task during the first week since they didn’t have office space and resorted to coffee houses and pubs to conduct meetings. And meeting spaces are not the only thing that is important, but it became imperative to get lots of other “stuff” — e.g., Communion plates, audio equipment, toys and crayons for the kids’ ministry, and coffee pots. It is revealed that several individuals, businesses, and other churches rally to the assistance of this wayward congregation prompting some insights into the nature of religious competion — meaning not just a zero-sum game for parishioners, but a positive-sum game of people helping and learning from others. We then cover the issue of how to get the word about that there is a new church in town and where it would be meeting. We discuss whether “marketing” is an appropriate term to be used with religious organizations and determine that it is. Matt shares how they leveraged social media like Facebook as well as “being in the community” to inform people about the endeavor. And we find out that it does work as 562 people showed up for the first Sunday of the church’s existence, far exceeding expectations. Other great stories are told about popcorn buckets, electrical outlets, and what happens when you are a half-hour before services start and somebody realizes there is no grape juice for the Communion. We speculate a bit about the future and promise to check in at a later date to see if the success continues. Few sociologists get to see the very beginning of a new church, and this podcast allows you to peek in on the frenetic process. A rare treat, indeed! Recorded: October 4, 2011 (only 8 days after the first organizational meeting and two days after the first service, so the memories are still fresh).

Disclaimer: This is the congregation that the host of Research on Religion currently attends (though he had no influence on any of the decisions discussed in the podcast).

Special thanks to Match Coffee & Wine in Duvall, WA for hosting the interview.

RELATED LINKS

Redemption Church (Duvall, WA) official website.

Redemption Church on Facebook.

Duvall, WA.

RELATED PODCASTS

Bradley Wright on Christian Stereotypes.