Research On Religion » U.S. Revolutionary War

Thomas Kidd on Benjamin Franklin’s Faith

tonygill — Sun, 02 Jul 2017 08:00:29 +0000

Benjamin Franklin is one of America’s most famous Founding Fathers, and is widely regarded as being amongst the “Deist” camp when it comes to religiosity. Prof. Thomas Kidd, a professor of history at Associate Director of the Institute for Studies of Religion at Baylor University, joins us to discuss the life and spiritual development of Ben Franklin. We begin with a discussion of where Franklin ended his life and why he has a reputation as being a Deist, and what Deism encompasses, particularly in the late 18th century. We then boomerang to Franklin’s early life growing up in a very strict Calvinist/Puritan household. The King James Bible had an immense formative impact on Ben’s life, who said in his autobiography that he read it by age five. We talk about the relationship he had with some of his siblings including Jane Mecon and James, under who he worked as an apprentice in the printing business. Prof. Kidd walks us through Ben’s rebellious period in his late teens and early twenties, which took him to Philadelphia and abroad to London where he lived a very licentious life for a time. We also talk about some of his early writings under the pseudonym Silence Dogood, a bit of a poke at the famous preacher Cotton Mather, but one that also showed some degree of reverence for the Christian preacher as well. Franklin never received much of a formal education despite being very smart. Tommy speculates that Ben was removed from formal schooling as his parents start to suspect that his contact with educational institutions made him more skeptical of Christianity. We see how this plays a role in his attitude towards college, including a particular view towards Harvard (which we reveal in the podcast). Upon returning from London, we learn about how Franklin’s religiosity and experience with religious diversity gives him a more mature view, forming what Dr. Kidd terms a “doctrinal-less moralist Christianity.” We talk about how religion is laced throughout his most famous writings in Poor Richard’s Almanac and how well he knew the King James Bible, better than many of the more orthodox Christians at the time. The other major influence on Franklin’s development was his relationship with George Whitefield, which first started as a business partnership (as religious tracts and hymnals were popular sellers for printers at the time), and then later becomes a personal friendship. Tommy talks about how the two had numerous respectful conversations over their theological differences. We finish our discussion with Franklin’s later life approaching the US Revolutionary War and Constitutional Convention and how the notion of God’s Providence began to play a larger role in his thinking. Prof. Kidd ends our discussion with some reflections on why understanding Franklin’s religion remains salient for our contemporary understanding of society. Recorded: May 29, 2017

Prof. Thomas Kidd’s Twitter feed and blog, The Anxious Bench (with other historians).

Benjamin Franklin: The Religious Life of a Founding Father, by Thomas Kidd.

American Colonial History: Clashing Cultures and Faiths, by Thomas Kidd.

Baptists in America: A History, by Thomas Kidd and Barry Hankins.

George Whitefield: America’s Spiritual Founding Father, by Thomas Kidd.

Patrick Henry: First Among Patriots, by Thomas Kidd.

God of Liberty: A Religious History of the American Revolution, by Thomas Kidd.

The First Great Awakening: The Roots of Evangelical Christianity in Colonial America, by Thomas Kidd.

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Thomas Kidd on the Pilgrims.

Thomas Kidd on the Great Awakening.

Mark David Hall on Roger Sherman, Puritan Patriot.

Mark David Hall on Religion & the Founding Fathers.

Mark David Hall on Religious Minorities in the U.S. Founding.

Daniel Dreisbach on Religious Rhetoric in the Founding Era.

Should Christians Have Fought in the US Revolutionary War? A Debate.

Chris Beneke on Religion, Markets, and the Founding Era.

John Fea on Religion & the American Founding.

Jonathan den Hartog on the Spiritual and Political Life of John Jay.

Michael McClymond on Jonathan Edwards.

Andrew Hoffecker on Charles Hodge and Princeton Theological Seminary.

Jonathan den Hartog on Patriotism and Piety.

Jonathan den Hartog on the Spiritual & Political Life of John Jay

tonygill — Sun, 30 Jun 2013 08:00:57 +0000

With Independence Day quickly approaching, we once again take a look at the role of religion in shaping America’s Founding. Prof. Jonathan den Hartog, associate professor of history at Northwestern College (St. Paul, MN), surveys the life, times and influence of John Jay, one of the “forgotten Founding Fathers.” A few folks will recognize John Jay as one of the three authors of The Federalist Papers and as the first Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, but not very many individuals can elaborate the extensive role that religion played in his life.

We start the interview off with a general overview of Jay’s public life, noting the significant roles he played during the Revolutionary Era, then during the process of establishing the governmental framework we have today, and finally to his final three decades as a champion of civil society. Prof. den Hartog then takes us back more deeply into Jay’s history and points out two influential religious strands that are interwoven in his political thought and actions, namely his French Huguenot ancestry and his experience with orthodox Anglicanism. We then break down Jay’s life into three phases: the republican era, the Federalist era, and his voluntarist period.

Jay’s “republican phase” marks the period leading up to the Revolutionary War and its immediate aftermath when the nation was tasked with the mission of crafting a government. We learn that Jay had some mixed feelings about going to war with Britain, being a supporter of the Olive Branch Petition, but quickly came to support the war once it began in earnest. Jonathan reveals how much of Jay’s theology motivated his political views, with particular attention to the role of Providence, as well as communal guilt, repentance, and blessing. Jay’s concern over the poor treatment of the Indians reflects this religious stream of thought. Jay played little direct role in the construction of the new national government, but his doubts regarding the weakness of the Articles of Confederation, and his view of Providence working in American history, push him to advocate for a more centralized federal government.

Upon ratification of the Constitution, we enter into Jay’s “federalist period,” wherein he plays an active role in shaping the various components of the nation’s new government, including as the Secretary of Foreign Affairs, the first Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, an important ambassadorial role, and then as governor of New York. The radicalization of the French Revolution plays a significant role in shaping Jay’s thought during this period as he witnesses the “de-Christianization” efforts of the Jacobins. We bring up a concern over the so-called “Bavarian Illuminati” as one of the early conspiracy theories that informs the thought of the age. Both Jonathan and Tony note how the decade of the 1790s was a very turbulent period in American history and that many of the themes arising then have echoes throughout the next two centuries. Due to Jay’s concern over this socio-political turbulence, he advocates as a governing figure for a stronger presence of religion in the public arena, including the call for a public day of thanksgiving.

John Jay’s “federalist era” comes to an end with his retirement from politics in 1801 and issues in the “volutarist period.” Although he didn’t believe he would live much longer, in part brought about by the death of his wife shortly after his political retirement, he does live nearly three more decades. It is during this time that he continues to advocate for the strong presence of religion in American culture via civil society. In addition to a number of voluntary organizations that includes missionary groups and clergy training groups, he eventually comes to head the American Bible Society (ABS). We learn what the ABS, an organization that still exists today, is all about. Prof. den Hartog makes the case that this phase of Jay’s life is really a more private expression of his previous federalist period, once again emphasizing the role of God’s Providence on the imprint of human history and America’s role in that plan.

We finish with Jonathan’s thoughts on what John Jay would think about our political scene today as well as Jay’s last words — “The Lord is better than we deserve.” Recorded: June 18, 2013.

RELATED LINKS

Prof. Jonathan den Hartog’s biography at Northwestern College.

Historical Conversations, Jonathan den Hartog’s blog.

James Madison Program in American Ideals and Institutions (Princeton University).

The Forgotten Founders on Religion and Public Life, edited by Daniel Driesbach, Mark David Hall, and Jeffry Morrison (with chapter by Jonathan den Hartog).

RELATED PODCASTS

Should Christians Have Fought in the US War of Independence? (A debate with three responses.)

Mark David Hall on Roger Sherman, Puritan Patriot.

John Fea on Religion & the American Founding.

Mark David Hall on Religion & the Founding Fathers.

Chris Beneke on Religion, Markets, and the Founding Era.

Tracy McKenzie on The First Thanksgiving.

Matt Boswell on Redemption Church, One Year Later

tonygill — Mon, 24 Sep 2012 08:00:56 +0000

One year ago, we interviewed Pastor Matt Boswell of Redemption Church who was part of a small team that created a church in one week’s time. We return to the scene of our initial interview — Match Coffee and Wine Bar in Duvall, WA — to see what has changed over the course of the year. This is a fascinating interview that provides insights into how churches grow and change. The podcast starts with Pastor Matt getting on Tony for not having attended church in a couple months. Hear your faithful host’s pathetic explanation as he tries to weasel out of responsibility for his spiritual growth. Nonetheless, this exchange opens the door to talk about church attendance and how it may ebb and flow over the course of a year. After a gangbuster opening week back in early October 2011, with standing room only, attendance at Redemption Church (RC) has settled into a typical rhythm. Matt talks about how the Pacific Northwest has a church attendance pattern that is different than other places in the United States with the typical member coming to Sunday services twice a month. We hypothesize about reasons why this might be. The other large issue that comes up early in the podcast deals with the logistics of a church that doesn’t have a “traditional church building.” Whereas RC does have administrative offices located above the local hardware store, the congregation meets in the town’s public high school, a space that is only available to them for a couple hours every weekend. The importance of “space” and “mission” is discussed at length. Whereas many people do like to have, and are comforted by, a stable location that they know they can go to (which is the role of the administrative offices), one of the initial goals of RC was to become a “church without walls,” wherein the pastoral staff has to go out into different parts of the town to work. Matt talks about how he often works on his Sunday sermons in a local bar, often attracting the attention of the patrons who find it odd that a member of the clergy would be hanging out with beer drinkers. This then moves to a discussion of how RC has structured its outreach and the different means with which they seek to attract people to the Word of God. Tony also brings up the issue of weddings and funerals and how these things are managed. After all, not many people like to get married in a high school auditorium, or make their last stop on earth be the same place where the senior class performed “Grease” the night before. Matt gives his take on where the wedding scene is at and how RC manages weddings and (potentially) funeral. (RC has not had the occasion of a funeral in its first year of existence.) He also shares the most unusual place he married a couple. The issue of “space” also brings up one of Tony’s most vexing questions: Has anyone in the “packed tight” high school auditorium ever spilled the sacramental grape juice when it is passed around? And what about those popcorn buckets? After answering this deeply philosophical question, the conversation then skips to a “church tour” that the RC pastoral staff took to Spokane, WA to learn about how other churches operate. This is a fascinating comparative study of different denominations at different points in their life span. Matt discusses how he learned about the importance of a church having a “vision.” This discussion would be of great interest to any clergy member or those interested in what makes for a successful congregation. We finish up with Matt’s reflections on what he learned over the past year, including both the triumphs and the mistakes, and a “lightning round” of questions that I asked to other guests including preaching politics, pacifism, and fighting in the US War of Independence. Recorded with ambient sounds of Match Coffee and Wine Bar: September 19, 2012.

RELATED LINKS

Redemption Church website.

Matt Boswell on Building Redemption Church, Part II.

Scott Thompson on Youth Ministry.

Ryan Habig on Music Ministry (including the soon-to-be hit single “With Us” for free!).

Joe Fuiten on Clergy & Politics.

Should Christians Have Fought in the US War of Independence?

Ron Mock on Pacifism, War, and Terrorism.

Should Christians Have Fought in the US War of Independence?

tonygill — Mon, 02 Jul 2012 08:00:08 +0000

Should Christians have picked up arms during the American War of Independence following the first salvos at Lexington & Concord in April, 1775? We pose that question to three Christian academics — Gregg Frazer, Jonathan den Hartog, and Mark David Hall — who offer different perspectives on this subject.

Prof. Gregg Frazer, professor of history and political studies at The Master’s College (Santa Clarita, CA), argues for the “no” position by noting that The Bible unequivocally teaches participation in any revolution are wrong. Prof. Frazer also notes that the situation of the colonists were hardly in a tyrannical situation in 1775, but even if it was tyrannical he clearly states that biblical teachings forbids rebellion against secular authority. Gregg cites Romans 13:1-2, John 19:11, and (later on) Acts 4 and Acts 5. Tony presses Gregg about whether or not the American War of Independence (a.k.a. The Revolutionary War) was a revolution or a war. Our discussion continues to explore whether or not there is a level of tyranny that could justify a rebellion against secular authority, and Prof. Frazer holds strong to his argument that there is no such instance. Gregg notes that you are to obey the government until the government asks you to disobey God, but then you rely upon a sovereign God to remove the authority and only engage in civil disobedience accepting the consequences. The discussion also encompasses issues of free will and what would history have looked like had he colonists never rebelled.

We then turn to Prof. Jonathan den Hartog, associate professor of history at Northwestern College in St. Paul, MN, who gives us the “yes” position by practicing the historian’s trade and getting into the head of the patriot colonists of the day. (It should be noted that Prof. den Hartog is not an unambiguous “yes” vote in this debate from his personal position.) We begin by noting the political imperative for rebellion in 1775 and Jonathan notes how the “squishy middle” disappeared quickly, specifically after John Jay’s Olive Branch Petition was rejected by King George shortly after Lexington & Concord. Jonathan then connects these political issues to the moral concerns of Christians at the time, noting that many pastors (e.g., Whitefield, Witherspoon) gave the issue of independence a great deal of thought and debate. Concern over the erosion of religious liberties was of major concern to many preachers of this era, and we explore whether this was a real concern or a threat merely whipped up to further a political agenda. Prof. den Hartog provides a telling anecdote of a colonial militiaman (Levi Preston) who noted his inspiration to fight came from The Bible and catechism. We talk about other justifications offered by Christians via “just war theory” wherein ministers like John Carmichael and David Jones conceive of the conflict as a defensive war to protect hearth and home.

The “squishy middle” position is then taken up by Prof. Mark David Hall of George Fox University in Newberg, OR. Prof. Hall first answers the specific question by examining a more abstract position of whether or not Christians can rise up in rebellion against secular authority, essentially examining what Romans 13:1-3 says and what “legitimate” government means in light of various Catholic and Protestant theologians such as John Knox. (It should be noted that Prof. Hall did not have knowledge of our discussion with Prof. Frazer, but these two have argued these points in the past.) Tony then prompts Mark to put this into the context of the American colonies of the middle-late 18th century, arguing that the level of tyranny experienced by the colonists really wasn’t all that tyrannical. Tax levels were low and the colonists did exercise a degree of self-governance that was not available to their peers in English towns. Mark responds by noting how the Reformed tradition, of which encompassed about 75% of all religious believers in the colonies at the time, is particularly sensitive to the possibility of tyranny. He then details the threats that the patriot forces perceived in the 1760s and ’70s, which makes Tony think that Mark would be quick to join the militia after Lexington & Concord. Thus, Tony prompts Mark about why he agreed to take a “wait-and-see” position. Prof. Hall responds that based upon hindsight regarding various “threats” during the Revolutionary era (e.g., the Quebec Act) there seems to have been much more room for reasoned negotiation. However, he also cautions against “presentism,” the intellectual tendency to view history from our current position. As such, Mark does argue that the colonists may have felt sufficiently threatened such that war may have been the most prudent option at the time. Tony finishes up the questioning by asking Mark what would have happened had the patriots not have picked up arms, whereupon Mark speculates that the commonwealth option that may have arisen, just as Gregg Frazer did earlier. Tony finishes off with his brief thoughts on the debate and listeners will have to get to the end of the podcast to see if he changed his position at all. Recorded: Mid-June 2012.

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RELATED LINKS

Prof. Gregg Frazer’s biography at The Master’s College.

The Religious Beliefs of America’s Founders: Reason, Revelation, Revolution, by Gregg Frazer.

Prof. Jonathan den Hartog’s biography at Northwestern College.

James Madison Program in American Ideals and Institutions (Princeton University).

Prof. Mark David Hall’s biography at George Fox University.

America’s Forgotten Founders, by Gary L. Gregg II and Mark David Hall. For other books by Prof. Hall, please see his earlier interviews on our podcast series.

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Mark David Hall on Roger Sherman, Puritan Patriot.

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