Research On Religion » James Madison

Anthony Gill on the Political Origins of Religious Liberty (Encore Presentation)

tonygill — Mon, 25 Sep 2017 14:45:26 +0000

Due to a series of technical difficulties with our studio line, we are rebroadcasting an interview that friend and colleague Steven Pfaff (UW Sociology) did with me nearly 5 years ago. Given that I am teaching a course on religion and politics this term, I am floating this one up to the top of the feed as an encore presentation for the students and for you. Please enjoy, and once we get the phone lines reconnected we will bring you some crescent fresh episodes.

Religious liberty has not been the normal state of affairs in world history. Indeed, religious activity has been tightly controlled by rulers across space and time. So why would political leaders ever choose to “deregulate a religion market”? This week, Anthony Gill (University of Washington, political science), the host of Research on Religion (Facebook page and Twitter), becomes the guest as Prof. Steven Pfaff (University of Washington, sociology) takes the reins of inquisitor and peppers Tony with questions about his book The Political Origins of Religious Liberty. We begin our conversation with a definition of religious liberty. Tony points out that it is important to think about religious liberty in terms of costs and benefits. Any government policy that imposes a greater cost on an individual or group’s ability to worship needs to be viewed as a decrease in freedom, whereas anything reducing such costs enhances liberty. We then talk about previous theories of why religious liberty has arisen in the modern world, noting that most scholars rely upon ideational reasons for its appearance — namely that policymakers were convinced by philosophers that religious freedom was a good idea in-and-of-itself. But Tony notes that even through religious liberty might be a good idea per se, it is not an idea that is always shared by everyone in the policymaking arena. Numerous policy ideas exist at any given moment and it is important to consider the political and economic interests of rule-makers when accounting for the appearance of tolerance and freedom in places like The Netherlands, Great Britain, and the United States. Secular leaders are most interested in their political survival, generating tax revenue, and growing the economy. These interests will be taken into consideration when deciding whether or not to allow greater religious freedoms. We also note that religious leaders are not neutral in this process. the clergy of dominant religions will generally favor restrictions on religious minorities, whereas religious minorities will advocate for greater religious freedoms. The gradual development of religious pluralism changes the political landscape in a way that favors the emergence of tolerance and liberty in the long-run (though there is likely to be conflict in the short-run). Our discussion relies upon examples from colonial British America, but Steve Pfaff adds to the conversation other illustrations from Russia, Germany, the Netherlands, and even Spain. We close with Steve challenging Tony on some different configurations of religious liberty and whether or not a government that seeks to be “neutral” is privileging secularism over all other confessions. Tony chimes in on this topic as well. Recorded: December 18, 2012.

Steve Pfaff’s bio at the University of Washington’s Department of Sociology.

The Political Origins of Religious Liberty, by Anthony Gill.

Rendering unto Caesar: The Catholic Church and the State in Latin America, by Anthony Gill.

Exit-voice Dynamics & the Collapse of East Germany, by Steven Pfaff.

The Spiritual Virtuoso: Personal Faith and Social Transformation, by Marion Goldman and Steven Pfaff.

RELATED PODCASTS

An extensive list of our podcasts on religious liberty.

Anthony Gill on Religion (an EconTalk podcast).

Steven Pfaff on the World of 1517 (Protestant Reformation Series).

Steven Pfaff on Denominationalism, Sin, and Other Stuff.

Larry Iannaccone on Sacrifice, Stigma, and the Economics of Religion.

Mark David Hall on Religious Minorities in the U.S. Founding

tonygill — Sun, 29 Jun 2014 08:00:56 +0000

Most people have heard about the role that Congregationalists, Anglicans, and so-called Deists have played in the founding of the United States, but what about Jews, Quakers, and other religious minorities. Prof. Mark David Hall, the Herbert Hoover Distinguished Professor of Politics at George Fox University, returns for his fourth episode to document the important influence exercised by individuals affiliated with lesser-known denominations. This discussion is informed by the scholarship of various authors in a volume Mark co-edited with Daniel Dreisbach entitled Faith and the Founders of the American Republic (see below for link). For those not familiar with Prof. Hall’s work, we start off the interview with a quick summary of his interest in religion during the Founding Era and what importance that may have for our contemporary society.

The first religious minority we focus on are Jews. With only about 2,000 Jews present during the time of the Revolutionary War, one might not think this group would have much influence. Based upon the writings of Prof. David Dalin, Mark notes that Jews were tolerated fairly well throughout colonial history and that George Washington had a very favorable relations with Jews, including Haym Solomon who helped for fund the Continental Army. Mark cites from Washington’s letter to a Newport synagogue to show how Washington’s view on religious freedom reflected more than mere tolerance. He also covers Jewish influence on Alexander Hamilton (educated by Sephardic Jews) and John Adams (a Christian supporter of Zionism), as well as the direct action of Jonas Phillips to help end religious tests in America.

We next talk about the role of Islam, with Mark summarizing the chapter in his volume written by Tommy Kidd. The influence of Islam on the American Founding and subsequent development of the republic was very indirect. First, it was noted that many of the slaves who were exported to the Americas came from Islamic regions of Africa thus there were most likely some Muslim slaves, though the numbers are not certain. Islam was also used in revolutionary era rhetoric to set up the trope of despotism, sometimes used by the Anti-Federalists in their arguments pertaining to the constitutional structure of the new republic. The other important realm in which Islam comes to play in the formation of America’s identity is through the contact with Barbary pirates, one of the first major foreign policy conflicts that had to be managed by John Adams and Thomas Jefferson. Mark also addresses the controversial interpretation surrounding the Treaty of Tripoli, which is often as evidence that the U.S. was not founded as a Christian nation.

We then move to the topic of Deism, not necessarily a denomination, but nonetheless a real belief system that was floating around in late 18th century America. Most folks are probably more familiar with Deism given that it is often associated with major historical figures of the time such as Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson. Mark defines what Deism is, a “squishy definition” at best. He then discusses whether any of these folks fell solidly within the Deist camp using the notion of an “interventionist God” as a baseline. Mark notes that several of the Founders most people associate with Deism — such as Franklin, Jefferson, and Washington — did make reference to an deity who does intervene in human history, most notably George Washington who wrote quite a bit about the role of Providence. When it comes down to it, Mark says that maybe only one or two of the major historical Founders — Ethan Allen and Thomas Paine — would qualify as strictly Deist in their philosophy. Our conversation on Deism tends to focus on the writings of Paine with Mark pointing out that even despite Paine’s Deist bent, he cites Scripture quite liberally in writings such as Common Sense knowing that the American public was more in tune with an orthodox view of Christianity as compared to a more Enlightenment philosophical posture. Mark also uses the general repudiation of Paine’s “Age of Reason” by many of the intellectual leaders of the U.S. at the time to illustrate that Deism may not have been as deeply woven into American elite culture as is now commonly assumed. (It is also at this point in the interview where Mark compliments Tony’s social scientific acumen. Just sayin’.)

We then finish up talking about the use of The Bible in the writings of American Founders, making reference to the scholarship of Daniel Dreisbach, and a handful of other Christian denominations including the Quakers (the denominational affiliation of George Fox University) and the Baptists (the affiliation of Baylor). We spend some time on the thought and influence of John Dickinson and John Hancock, a flamboyant albeit philanthropic Calvinist. Mark also gives us a sneak preview of his current research, something that will probably be heard next year during the Fourth of July! Recorded: June 5, 2014.

Faith and the Founders of the American Republic, edited by Daniel Dreisbach and Mark David Hall.

Roger Sherman and the Creation of the American Republic, by Mark David Hall.

America’s Forgotten Founders, edited by Gary Gregg and Mark David Hall.

RELATED PODCASTS

Mark David Hall on Roger Sherman, Puritan Patriot.

Mark David Hall on Religion and the Founding Fathers.

Should Christians Have Fought in the U.S. War of Independence?

Chris Beneke on Religion, Markets, and the Founding Era.

John Fea on Religion and the American Founding.

Evan Haefeli on the Dutch Origins of Religious Tolerance.

Jonathan Den Hartog on the Spiritual and Political Life of John Jay.

Gary Scott Smith on Presidential Faith.

Thomas Kidd on the Great Awakening.

Anthony Gill on the Political Origins of Religious Liberty

tonygill — Mon, 07 Jan 2013 09:00:50 +0000

Religious liberty has not been the normal state of affairs in world history. Indeed, religious activity has been tightly controlled by rulers across space and time. So why would political leaders ever choose to “deregulate a religious market”? In a turnabout way, the host of Research on Religion, Anthony Gill, becomes the guest with Prof. Steve Pfaff (UW Sociology) filling in as the interviewer as they discuss Tony’s most recent book, The Political Origins of Religious Liberty. You’ve known Tony as the suave voice that comes over your iPod headphones for the past 136 weeks, but did you also know that his is a professor of political science at the University of Washington and Distinguished Senior Fellow at Baylor’s Institute for Studies of Religion? He is, and now is the chance to find out what he thinks about the important philosophical issues of the time. We begin our conversation discussion with a definition of religious liberty. Tony points out that it is important to think about religious liberty in terms of costs and benefits. Any government policy that imposes a greater cost on an individual or group’s ability to worship needs to be viewed as a decrease in freedom, whereas anything reducing such costs is a movement towards liberty. We then talk about previous theories of why religious liberty has arisen in the modern world, noting that most scholars rely upon ideological reasons for its appearance — namely that policymakers were convinced by philosophers that religious freedom was a good idea. But Tony notes that even though religious liberty might be a good idea, it is not an idea that is always shared by everyone in the policymaking arena. Numerous policy ideas exist at any given moment and it is important to consider the political and economic interests of rulemakers when accounting for the appearance of tolerance and freedom in places like The Netherlands, Great Britain, and the United States. Secular leaders are most interested in their political survival, generating tax revenue, and growing the economy. These interests will be taken into consideration when deciding whether or not to allow greater religious freedoms. We also note that religious leaders are not neutral in this process. The clergy of dominant religious will generally favor restrictions on religious minorities, whereas religious minorities will push for greater freedom. The gradual development of religious pluralism changes the political landscape in a way that favors the emergence of tolerance and liberty in the long-run (though there is likely to be conflict in the short-run). Our discussion relies mostly upon examples from colonial British America, but Steve Pfaff peppers the conversation with other illustrations from Russia, Germany, the Netherlands and even Spain. We close with Steve challenging Tony on some different configuations of religious liberty and whether or not a government that seeks to be “neutral” is privileging secularism over all other confessions. Tony shares his thoughts on this subject. Recorded: December 18, 2012.

RELATED LINKS

Anthony Gill’s website at the University of Washington and Baylor’s ISR.

The Political Origins of Religious Liberty, by Anthony Gill (also available on Kindle).

Rendering unto Caesar: The Catholic Church and the State in Latin America, by Anthony Gill (and on Kindle).

Steve Pfaff’s website at the University of Washington.

Exit-Voice Dynamics & the Collapse of East Germany, by Steve Pfaff.

RELATED PODCASTS

Timothy Shah on the Case for Religious Liberty.

Allen Hertke on Religious Liberty.

Thomas Farr on Religion, Religious Liberty, and US Diplomacy.

Jonathan Fox on Religion & State around the World.

William Inboden on Religious Liberty, Foreign Policy, and the Arab Spring.

Jason Jewell on John Locke and Religious Toleration.

Roger Finke on Religious Persecution.

Chris Beneke on Religion, Markets, and the Founding Era.

Daniel Philpott on Religious Resurgence and Democratization.

Kevin Cooney on Religion and the Rule of Law in China.

Allen Hertzke on Religious Liberty

tonygill — Mon, 14 Nov 2011 09:00:37 +0000

One of the recurring themes of the Research on Religion podcast series is religious liberty — including the causes for, consequences of, and threats to such freedom. Prof. Allen Hertzke — Presidential Professor of Political Science at the University of Oklahoma — joins us to give his overview of this topic based on his research conducted both in the United States and globally. Prof. Hertzke recounts how his interest in religion and politics developed, and how he became increasingly involved in studying religious freedom on a global scale. We talk about what impact academic scholarship might have on promoting religious freedom as well as offer some speculations as to why intellectual and policy elites have often been dismissive, or outright hostile, to this basic civil liberty. We then dissect the importance of religious freedom examining it on the theoretical dimensions of equal worth, dignity, reason and community. We then move on to some of the more empirical examples of how religious freedom has promoted positive developments in the world, and how and why we’ve seen some backtracking on its spread over the past decade. Recorded: November 3, 2011.

RELATED LINKS

Prof. Allen Hertzke’s bio at the University of Oklahoma.

Freeing God’s Children: The Unlikely Alliance for Global Human Rights, by Allen Hertzke.

Representing God in Washington: The Role of Religious Lobbies in the American Polity, by Allen Hertzke.

Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life.

John Templeton Foundation.

Institute for Global Engagement.

Echoes of Discontent: Jesse Jackson, Pat Robertson and the REsurgence of Populism, by Allen Hertzke.

“Septics, Sewers, and Secularization: How Government Flushes Religious Liberty Down the Drain,” a guiding paper by Anthony Gill mentioned on the podcast.

RELATED PODCASTS

Roger Finke on Religious Persecution.

Catherine Wanner on Religion in Russia.

Karrie Koesel on Religion & Politics in China.

Kevin Cooney on Religion and the Rule of Law in China.

Lan Chu on Catholicism in Vietnam.

Thomas Farr on Religion, Religious Liberty, and US Diplomacy.

Daniel Philpott on Religious Resurgence & Democratization.

Monica Toft on Religion, Terrorism, and Civil War.

Mark David Hall on Roger Sherman, Puritan Patriot.

John Fea on Religion & the American Founding.

Erik Stanley on Clergy and Free Speech.

Pastor Joe Fuiten on Clergy and Politics.

Douglas Baker on Dominionism, Michele Bachmann, & Rick Perry

tonygill — Mon, 19 Sep 2011 08:00:25 +0000

Recently, Republican presidential candidates Michele Bachmann and Rick Perry have been accused by some journalists of being influenced by a political theology known as Dominionism. Also known as Christian Reconstructionism, this line of thinking supposedly advocates for a theologically-based government based largely on Old Testament law. But are some of these assertions simply misrepresentations of various Christian thinkers, and of the positions of the GOP candidates. Douglas Baker, assistant to the provost at Union University and a regular columnist at Patheos.com (the Crisis and Kairos column), discusses the philosophy behind Dominionism. We trace the roots of this theological perspective back many centuries and discuss how thinkers such as St. Augustine and John Calvin approached the ongoing tension between the Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Man, reflecting upon the proper role of religious thought and law should play in secular governance. Our discussion then turns to two contemporary figures who are said to have had influenced modern Christian Reconstructionists — Rousas John Rushdoony and Francis Schaeffer. Baker argues that Rushdoony, although capturing the attention of some of the critics of Dominionism such as Michelle Goldberg and Sarah Diamond with his more extreme views, has largely been a marginal figure in the thinking of most evangelical Christians. Instead, Doug Baker asserts that Francis Schaeffer has had a more profound and moderate impact on evangelicals, influencing the likes of Chuck Colson, James Kennedy, and Jerry Falwell. We discuss why some journalists and authors have tended to focus on Rushdoony, and how they have misrepresented the debate over the role of religious faith in the public square that is ongoing amongst evangelical Christians. We then talk about the proper role religion should play in government, noting that religion can sometimes have a corrupting influence on politics and how politics may have a corrupting influence on religion. This discussion takes us back to James Madison’s thoughts on religion during the Founding and allows us to think about the recent Faith-Based Initiative that was pursued under our last three presidents, most notably George W. Bush. We finish up with Doug’s thoughts on how and to what extent Michele Bachmann and Rick Perry — two of the leading contenders for the Republican nomination for president in 2012 (as of mid-September 2011) — have been influenced by Christian Reconstructionism. Doug then shares his thoughts on whether LSU is a contender for the national football championship or not. Recorded: September 15, 2011.

RELATED LINKS

“Downgrading Dominionism” by Douglas E. Baker on Patheos.com.

Crisis and Kairos, Douglas Baker’s blog on Patheos.com.

Kingdom Coming: The Rise of Christian Nationalism, by Michelle Goldberg.

Roads to Dominion: Right-Wing Movements and Political Power in the United States, by Sara Diamond.

A Christian Manifesto, by Francis Schaeffer.

How Should We Then Live, by Francis Schaeffer.

The New England Soul: Preaching and Religious Culture in Colonial New England, by Harry Stout.

RELATED PODCASTS

Luis Bolce on the Media and Anti-Fundamentalism.

David Brody on the 2010 Midterm Elections and Religious Journalism.

Joe Fuiten on Clergy & Politics.

Mark David Hall on Roger Sherman, Puritan Patriot

tonygill — Mon, 04 Jul 2011 08:00:38 +0000

Building on our discussion last week, Prof. Mark David Hall — Herbert Hoover Distinguished Professor of Political Science at George Fox University (Newberg, OR) — brings his perspective on the role of religion in America’s Founding to our podcast. Using Roger Sherman as an anchor point, Prof. Hall demonstrates how Calvinist theology and political thought was quite common in the latter half of the 18th century. We detail the life of Roger Sherman, revealing that he was one of the most important, yet most overlooked, of the Founding Fathers, having participated in the conventions that resulted in the Declaration of Independence, Articles of Confederation, and the United States Constitution. Mark makes the case that Calvinist (or Reformed) social thought led to many of the same conclusions about political liberty and separation of church and state that secular Enlightenment thinkers did. Moreover, he argues that the majority of individuals involved in influencing the Founding documents were of a Reformed mindset, as compared to the more Deistic (or Unitarian) theology ascribed to Thomas Jefferson and James Madison. We discuss Prof. Hall’s position on whether or not the US was founded as a Christian nation. Recorded: June 1, 2011.

Please note: This episode was recorded one day earlier than the interview recorded with Prof. John Fea. I consider these two podcasts to be part of a vigorous debate about the influence of religion in the founding of America. Prof. Hall’s podcast is airing one week later due to a commitment I made to have his podcast air on July 4 before securing the interview date with Prof. Fea. Dr. Hall’s trip to China required me to move up the interview date.

RELATED LINKS

Prof. Mark David Hall’s website at George Fox University.

“Jeffersonian Walls and Madisonian Lines” article mentioned in the podcast written by Mark David Hall.

The Founders on God and Government edited by Daniel L Dreisbach, Mark David Hall, and Jeffry H. Morrison.

America’s Forgotten Founders edited by Gary L. Gregg and Mark David Hall.

The Forgotten Founders on Religion and Public Life edited by Daniel L Dreisbach, Mark David Hall, and Jeffry H. Morrison.

The Sacred Rights of Conscience: Selected Readings on Religious Liberty and Church-State Relations in the American Founding by Daniel L. Driesbach and Mark David Hall.

RELATED PODCASTS

Mark David Hall on Religion & the Founding Fathers.

John Fea on Religion & the American Founding.

Thomas Kidd on the Pilgrims.

Thomas Kidd on the Great Awakening.

Mark David Hall on Religion & the Founding Fathers

tonygill — Sun, 27 Jun 2010 06:30:49 +0000

Much ado has been made about Thomas Jefferson’s famous phrase “a wall of separation between church and state,” written in a letter to several Baptist ministers from Danbury, Connecticut. Aside from this statement, how did the Founding Fathers view the relationship between church and state, and religion and politics? How have the thoughts of the Founding Fathers (not just Jefferson) been used in modern church-state court cases? Mark David Hall, the Herbert Hoover Distinguished Professor of Political Science at George Fox University (Newberg, OR), talks with Tony Gill about the views of Founding Fathers such as James Madison and Roger Sherman. Hall elaborates on how the views of such men have been selectively used by Supreme Court justices. The podcast concludes with a discussion of current church-state controversies including the National Day of Prayer. Recorded: May 5, 2010.

RELATED LINKS

Prof. Mark David Hall’s website.

“Jeffersonian Walls and Madisonian Lines” article by Mark David Hall.

The Sacred Rights of Conscience: Selected Readings on Religious Liberty and Church-State Relations in the American Founding by Daniel Driesbach and Mark David Hall.

Letter from the Danbury Baptists.

Letter to the Danbury Baptists.

Everson v Board of Education.

RELATED PODCASTS

Stanley on Clergy & Free Speech.