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David Patel on Religion & Social Order in Iraq (Encore Presentation)

tonygill — Sun, 29 Apr 2018 08:00:13 +0000

We are still on a break. In the meantime, enjoy one of Tony’s favorite interviews from the past.

Why have many women in the Middle East resorted to increasingly conservative modes of dress in recent decades? And what happens after a political regime rapidly collapses leaving society in near total chaos as happened in Iraq in 2003? Dr. David Patel, a junior research fellow at the Crown Center for Middle East Studies at Brandeis University, answers these questions and accounts for the rise and success of ISIS by using a political-economic approach to religious institutions and behavior. He links these various topics through the importance of social coordination, signaling, and common knowledge to a society, and explains why Shiites were more successful in limiting violence and providing public goods than Sunnis were in Iraq following the US invasion in 2003.

Our conversation begins with a bit of methodological banter as Tony asks David about the various analytical tools he uses including game theory, geospatial analysis, and ethnography. These theoretical and empirical techniques are rarely employed in conjunction with one another in the social sciences, and David offers a spirited defense of his multi-disciplinary approach and notes that ethnography has received a bad rap in the field of political science. We also talk about how these tools came to be applied to the study of religion and politics in the Middle East, and David and Tony share stories about how manuscript reviewers told them to submit their work to sociology journals since what they did “wasn’t political science.”

We then turn to the topic of “veiling” broadly construed. David quickly corrects Tony’s use of that term noting that “veiling” refers to a covering of the face, but many forms of Islamic conservative attire need not do that, including the use of gloves or simple headscarves (hijabs). Nonetheless, David has noted an increase in the use of more concealing clothing amongst Muslim women in the past several decades. He links this phenomenon to the growing interest among all women for more modest and non-Western forms of apparel. However, when all (or most) women began wearing more conservative attire in the 1970s and ’80s, it created a situation where highly pious women were less able to signal their piety to potential mates in the marriage market. As such, there was a ramping up of concealing clothing so that the truly pious could differentiate themselves from those with less religious commitment. He explains this in the context of a societal marriage market and makes a case that social scientists should pay much more attention to this aspect of society. David further observes that there have been similar trends among men, with the length of beards and style of shoes being important markers for signaling religious adherence.

The discussion shifts gears in a seemingly different direction as we pick up on the topic of Dr. Patel’s current book manuscript on the rebuilding of order in Iraq after the fall of Saddam Hussein. While appearing unrelated to the aforementioned topic of Islamic dress, the importance of information and coordination tie these two topics together. David notes how massive looting broke out in Iraq in mere days following the US invasion of Iraq and Hussein’s ouster as president. Such a chaotic situation is a rather untenable one for most people and the re-creation of social order becomes a necessity. Quickly after the collapse of the Iraqi state, we see the emergence of Friday mosque sermons as a means of coordinating local priorities, which is unusual as given that Friday sermons are comparatively rare. Shia mosques turned out to be more successful at coordinating such local priorities, facilitating common knowledge, and providing local public goods (e.g., trash pickup and security) as they had a more hierarchical structure under the direction of Ali al-Sistani.

We conclude our interview with David’s thoughts on the rise of ISIS, why it has been successful, and some of the misconceptions both pundits and policymakers have about its organizational structure. He notes that ISIS’s simple ability to provide public goods and social order in areas where such order is lacking is what can account for its success. We finish with some of David’s personal “ah ha!” moments in his research, including the importance of local social norms and the realization that religion is not merely instrumental but something people hold to be intrinsically valuable. Recorded: September 25, 2015.

Brandeis University’s Crown Center for Middle East Studies.

“ISIS in Iraq: What We Get Wrong and Why 2015 is Not 2007 Redux,” by David Patel.

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Matthew Derrick on the Geography of the Umma.

Ani Sarkissian on Politics and Religious Civil Society in Turkey.

Paul Kubicek on Islam, Political Islam, and Democracy.

Monica Toft on Religion, Terrorism, and Civil War.

John Owen IV on Confronting Political Islam, Historical Lessons.

Will Inboden on Religious Liberty, Foreign Policy, and the Arab Spring.

Sean Everton on Dark Networks.

Karen Elliott House on Journalism and Saudi Arabia.

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Chris Soper on the Challenge of Religious Pluralism

tonygill — Sun, 09 Apr 2017 08:00:20 +0000

How do various democratic nations manage increasing religious pluralism around the world? Prof. Christopher Soper, a distinguished political scientist at Pepperdine University, answers this question and talks about the third edition of his book The Challenge of Pluralism, co-authored with Kevin den Dulk and the late Stephen Monsma. After Chris provides a few reflections on the scholarly influence of Prof. Monsma, we discuss how a third edition of this popular text suggested itself with a changing religious environment in many Western democracies, most notably the increase in Muslim populations in Europe. Prof. Soper notes that the impetus for the book back in 1997 was to answer three questions that remain more relevant than ever: 1) How much religiously-motived behavior that is contrary to societal welfare and norms can a democratic polity allow?; 2) To what extent should the state promote consensual religious beliefs in order to promote a shared set of values and virtues that are fundamental to limited democratic governance?; and 3) When religious groups and government agencies are active in the same fields of work, how can a society ensure that the state does not advantage one religious group (or secular belief system) over another? Chris then reviews the three models of church-state relations that he and his co-authors detail in the book: 1) the separationist model as exemplified by the United States and France; 2) the establishment model that includes England and Germany; and 3) the pluralist model in both its “pragmatic” (Australia) and “principled” variants (the Netherlands). He explains the dimensions of each model, noting that there is variation within each category. For example, while both the US and France are considered separationist, the historical trajectories of each country conditioned a more aggressive separationist position in France. For much of the second half of the interview, we walk through examples of these models with Chris giving background on each of the cases. Prof. Soper argues the case that the pluralist model is best at recognizing the importance of religion in the public square while still allowing space for secular claims. Our discussion also centers around how each of the states are meeting and accommodating increased religious pluralism, most notably with respect to the growing presence of Islam. With Islam being a much more decentralized faith tradition than the typical European Christian denominations, it has been difficult to absorb this religion into historical church-state models, particularly those of the establishment variant, but efforts have been made to do this. We finish our podcast with Chris giving his opinion about the viability of a Christian Democratic party in the United States (revisiting a question from an earlier podcast), and reflecting on what he has learned over two decades and three editions of his book. Recorded: March 28,2017.

The Challenge of Pluralism: Church and State in Six Democracies, by J. Christopher Soper, Kevin den Dulk, and Stephen Monsma.

Muslims and the State in Britain, France, and Germany, by Joel Fetzer and J. Christopher Soper.

Confucianism, Democracy, and Human Rights in Taiwan, by Joel Fetzer and J. Christopher Soper.

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Joel Fetzer on Confucianism and Democracy.

Ahmet Kuru on Islam in Europe.

Claire Adida on Discrimination towards Muslims in France.

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Ani Sarkissian on Religion and Religious Civil Society in Turkey.

Does American Need a Christian Democratic Party?

David Patel on Religion & Social Order in Iraq

tonygill — Sun, 27 Sep 2015 08:00:45 +0000

Brandeis University’s Crown Center for Middle East Studies.

“ISIS in Iraq: What We Get Wrong and Why 2015 is Not 2007 Redux,” by David Patel.

RELATED PODCASTS

Matthew Derrick on the Geography of the Umma.

Ani Sarkissian on Politics and Religious Civil Society in Turkey.

Paul Kubicek on Islam, Political Islam, and Democracy.

Monica Toft on Religion, Terrorism, and Civil War.

John Owen IV on Confronting Political Islam, Historical Lessons.

Will Inboden on Religious Liberty, Foreign Policy, and the Arab Spring.

Sean Everton on Dark Networks.

Karen Elliott House on Journalism and Saudi Arabia.

Ann Wainscott on Morocco’s Religious Foreign Policy.

Brian Grim on Religious Liberty & Business

tonygill — Sun, 28 Sep 2014 08:00:28 +0000

Is religious liberty good for business? Can business people be enticed into caring about the rights of conscience? Brian Grim, president and founder of the Religious Freedom & Business Foundation, explains why such matters should be of concern to entrepreneurs and how commercial leaders can be motivated to promote such a basic human right.

Our conversation starts out with penguins but quickly moves towards the rationale behind Brian’s new venture, his foundation promoting religious freedom via an outreach to business enterprises. Tony asks about where the idea came from and how Brian went about setting it up. He details some of the steps and lays out a couple of the initial ventures that his organization has been undertaking. We also explore Brian’s deep background, finding out how a kid who wanted to be an astronaut and was on the waiting list at the US Air Force Academy ends up traveling the world promoting religious freedom.

We then dive into the topic of religious liberty more generally and Brian lays out why this particular freedom is important to believers and businesses. As a demographer of religion, Brian speaks to the various trends and changes that have been taking place across the world’s spiritual landscape. He notes that it is not just that religion is expanding via conversion, but changes can also be traced to fertility demographics. The religions that are also growing tend to be faiths that “ask something of their members,” an observation that is congruent with last week’s podcast guest, Larry Iannaccone. Brian peppers his general observations with remarks about the Uyghurs and Buddhists in western China. We also spend some time discussing Brazil, a country that ranks as being more religiously free than the United States and that has seen a renaissance of religious activity in recent decades. Brian shares his discussions with the vice president of Brazil and makes a few observations that are consistent with Tony’s research from two decades ago.

The second half of our interview investigates the role that businesses can (and do) play in promoting religious freedom. Brian illustrates his argument that commercial enterprises are a vital link in the struggle for religious liberty with various stories, including what has been happening in Indonesia. In that country, which requires citizens to be a member of a religion, businesses have been instrumental in promoting interfaith dialogue and understanding, including initiatives that allow inter-faith companies get married. This prompts Tony to wonder why businesses in the US try to stay out of such potentially controversial subjects, noting that businesses that do wear their faith openly (e.g., Hobby Lobby, Chick-fil-A) have been under public scrutiny and derision in some quarters. Brian offers his thoughts on the topic noting how religious freedom has become highly politicized in the US where the “separation of church and state” has been asserted in many different venues — both public and private.

Brian offers more examples of how the blending of religious and the freedom to express one’s conscience has very positive effects for business. He uses Kellogg’s, Ford, and Abercrombie & Fitch as examples. He also discusses how he “sells” the idea of religious freedom to a variety of commercial interests around the globe. We finish with Brian’s thoughts about where this all is heading. Are there reasons to be optimistic about religious human rights in the near future? Brian comes down as an optimist. Recorded: September 23, 2014.

The Senim Foundation (also established by Brian Grim).

The Price of Freedom Denied: Religious Persecution and Conflict in the Twenty-First Century, by Brian Grim and Roger Finke.

The World’s Religions in Figures: An Introduction to International Religious Demography, by Todd Johnson and Brian Grim.

Yearbook of International Religious Demography, by Brian Grim and others.

The World Religion Database, by Todd Johnson and Brian Grim.

Georgetown’s Religious Freedom Project.

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Roger Finke on Religious Persecution .

Theodore Malloch on Spiritual Capital and Virtuous Business.

Religious Liberty & Political Flourishing: A Panel Discussion.

Religious Liberty & Economic Prosperity: A Panel Discussion.

Thomas Farr on Religion, Religious Liberty, and US Diplomacy.

Timothy Shah on the Case for Religious Liberty.

Allen Hertzke on Religious Liberty.

Will Inboden on Religious Liberty, Foreign Policy, and the Arab Spring.

Russ Roberts & Anthony Gill on Religion and Religious Liberty.

Ani Sarkissian on Religious Liberty in the Post-Soviet World.

Jonathan Fox on Religion & State around the World.

Anthony Gill on the Political Origins of Religious Liberty.

Alessandra González on Islamic Feminism

tonygill — Mon, 01 Apr 2013 08:00:32 +0000

Does the term “Islamic feminism” sound counter-intuitive? Dr. Alessandra González, of John Jay College (CUNY) and Baylor University’s Institute for Studies of Religion, explores how women in Kuwait are finding new ways to empower themselves and advocate for their interests in an environment where political Islam (or Islamism) is resurgent. Dr. González begins the interview by noting that our podcast series, which is approaching 150 episodes, is bereft of any discussion of feminism, a fact that Tony notes is correct due to his complete lack of knowledge on the topic. Alessandra shares how she came to study this topic, which admittedly is one that is not explored deeply and is often misunderstood in the world of academia. We then review common understandings of “feminism,” covering the various waves of this movement from its early incarnation in the West with women’s suffrage to more current understandings of the term. This discussion helps frame how feminism is understood in the US and Europe as compared to its incarnation in the Middle East, or Kuwait specifically. Alessandra notes that few, if any, of her interview subjects considered themselves as “feminists.” This opens the door to a discussion of the Kuwaiti landscape and Dr. González reviews the recent history of Kuwait as it relates to women, noting the influences of British influence, oil wealth, pan-Arabism, the opening of education to women in the mid-1960s, and the surprising influence of the Iraq invasion of the country in 1990. During this latter event, women proved to be very crucial to the war effort and helped to reshape female roles in society. We also cover three sources of authority in Kuwaiti society including religious authority (shari’a law), political authority, and community authority. These three sources of authority are shown to be in tension, yet provide openings for feminist activism. With additional discussion on the role of two ideological/theological groups in society — Islamists and Liberals — we inch closer to a definition of what it means to be an Islamic feminist. We then move from a discussion of the role of higher education to the wearing of the Islamic veil (hijab) and how that is not seen as a symbol of patriarchal oppression but a symbol for women who want to assert their religious identity through their own choice. Interestingly, younger women are more likely to wear the veil than the previous generation, especially after September 11, 2001, a trend that Tony has noticed on his own university campus. Throughout our conversation, Alessandra illustrates many of the issues she brings up with comments from women and men she interviewed during her various trips to Kuwait. We then talk more specifically about what Islamic feminism represents, noting once again that this is not a term that many would use to refer to themselves in Kuwaiti society. The focus turns to three important aspects of the movement including an academic component, the adoption of a comprehensive Islamic worldview, and a need to foster cultural compatability to a society that considers local community and tribal relations to be important. Tony notes that this seems to be a grassroots movement without specifically-identified leaders as we’ve seen in the West with individuals such as Gloria Steinem, a contention that Alessandra agrees with and brings more context to. Alessandra also highlights the important role that men play in this movement as well. In our closing moments, we share some observations about Alessandra’s methodology, namely examining what it was like to be a non-Muslim Westerner studying this topic. Dr. González then shares some of the insights she brought back from her most recent visit to Kuwait after publishing her book and what some of the grand lessons she learned throughout the course of her study into this fascinating topic. Recorded: March 25, 2013.

RELATED LINKS

Alessandra González’s bio at Baylor’s Institute for Studies of Religion.

Islamic Feminism in Kuwait: The Politics and Paradoxes, by Alessandra L. González.

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Nathan Brown on the Muslim Brotherhood.

Ahmet Kuru on Islam in Europe.

Ahmet Kuru on Islam in Europe

tonygill — Mon, 21 Feb 2011 09:00:40 +0000

How is contemporary Europe adjusting to the growing presence of Muslim immigrants and their second and third generation progeny? Prof. Ahmet Kuru — assistant professor of political science at San Diego State University — joins Tony to discuss the origins and demographic composition of Muslim immigration in post-WWII Europe. We primarily focus our discussion on France, Great Britain and Germany, though the responses of other countries are mentioned as well. Prof. Kuru notes how the demand for labor in the post-war era, combined with differering colonial legacies, shaped the issues surrounding the accomodation of Muslim immigrants in different parts of Europe. While Great Britain made citizenship for immigrants easy based on whether an immigrant came from a former colony, countries such as Germany made citizenship more difficult and existed under the expectation that immigrants would eventually return to their place of origin. Our discussion covers Prof. Kuru’s research on assertive secularism, wherein nations (e.g., France) intentionally seek to remove religion from the public sphere (though the implementation of such policies is not always consistent). We cover the recent ban on the Muslim headscarf (hijab) and oher controversies such as mosque construction and funding for religious education. We close out our discussion with a discussion of how religious policy is changing in Turkey and how that relates to the European situation, and why Muslims in the United States have found it esier to accomodate to the cultural and political landscape than in Europe. Recorded: February 7, 2011.

RELATED LINKS

Prof. Ahmet Kuru’s website at San Diego State University.

Secularism and State Policies toward Religion: The United States, France, and Turkey by Ahmet T. Kuru.