Research On Religion » Featured

So Long and Thanks for Listening

tonygill — Sun, 24 Jun 2018 08:00:25 +0000

After eight years, and 372 unique episodes, Dr. Anthony Gill – professor of political science at the University of Washington and Distinguished Senior Fellow at Baylor University’s Institute for Studies of Religion – retires the microphone and moves on to other pastures. In a short, ten-minute monologue Tony explains why he decided to end the show at this time and thanks Baylor’s ISR, his guests, and the listeners for tuning in. It is also noted that over the next three months, there will be a “Top Twelve” countdown of the host’s favorite episodes with brief descriptions of why that episode ranked as it did. At the very end, he shares the two most important things he learned along the way. Recorded: June 19, 2018.

Given that Tony has rarely been able to showcase his own work, below is a list of writings and other podcasts related to the academic work that he does.

Baylor University’s Institute for Studies of Religion.

Rendering unto Caesar: The Catholic Church and the State in Latin America, by Anthony Gill.

The Political Origins of Religious Liberty, by Anthony Gill.

“An Economic and Pedagogical Defense of Tipping,” by Anthony Gill in the Journal of Private Enterprise.

“Religious Liberty and Economic Prosperity: Four Lessons from the Past,” by Anthony Gill and John Owen IV in the CATO Journal.

RELATED PODCASTS

Anthony Gill on the Political Origins of Religious Liberty.

Victor Gill on Why There Isn’t an Episode This Week.

Russ Roberts and Anthony Gill on Religion (an EconTalk “simul-podcast”).

Anthony Gill on Tipping (another EconTalk podcast foreshadowing Tony’s projects to come).

David Deavel on De Sales, Newman, Chesterton, and Hitchcock

tonygill — Sun, 18 Mar 2018 08:00:21 +0000

Location, location, location. That is the eternal cry of every real estate agent, and it proved prophetic for this week’s guest, Prof. David Deavel, an assistant professor of Catholic Studies at the University of St. Thomas — as he grew up an evangelical Christian in the shadow of Notre Dame, which gave him the foundation for later converting to Catholicism. And along the way, he became an expert on a number of Catholic saints, theologians, and writers, which is where our discussion winds today. And a winding road it is, starting with St. Francis De Sales, moving into John Henry Newman, off to G.K. Chesterton, and finally stopping with Alfred Hitchcock. This is a fun-filled and light-hearted look at a number of Catholic thinkers and their relationship to our modern world.

The conversation begins with a bit of the background on our guest, and an interesting fun fact that the city of St. Paul was once called “Pig’s Eye.” We learn much about how Prof. Deavel ended up thinking about everything from Catholic social thought to vampires and Harry Potter. After that, we get on to the primary topic at hand, which is Saint Francis De Sales, a priest who originally started out as a lawyer and who was also an avid rower back in the 16th century (and eventually passing in 1622). Prof. Deavel terms De Sales a “patron saint for our time” by observing that Francis threw himself into a very contentious environment in Switzerland several decades after the Protestant Reformation. Catholics were not all that popular in Geneva back then, thus De Sales had to figure out how to keep a low profile (once hiding in a tree for a full day), yet keep true to his love of spreading the Gospel. De Sales strategy was to show and live a life of love, and would often minister in local houses. His understanding that all Christians were holy was a thought that preceded the thinking of the Second Vatican Council’s emphasis on ecumenism by more than three centuries. David points out that in today’s world where politics has become a “blood sport” and all sorts of groups are locked in seemingly endless battle, De Sales message of tolerance is one that should be heralded. Francis De Sales eventually was promoted to bishop of Geneva and founded the Salesians religious order (or Visitation sisters).

We then move on to discuss John Henry Newman who lived for most of the 19th century and became an important figure in Catholic education. Experiencing a Christian conversion at age 16 and becoming an Anglican clergy member in the 1820s, Newman was a principal leader of the Oxford Movement that sought to return the Church of England to its Catholic roots. Though unsuccessful in returning the Anglican Church to Catholicism, Newman found himself converting to Catholicism in the mid-19th century, eventually becoming a Cardinal in the Church. We discuss his emphasis on education, culminating both in his work in Dublin, as well as his series of lectures that culminated in the work The Idea of a University which has heavily influenced Catholic higher education to this day. Although never having hidden in a tree like Francis De Sales, Cardinal Newman has been on the road to sainthood and is currently categorized as Blessed Newman, one step away from becoming an official saint. Our conversation turns then to G.K. Chesterton, another Catholic thinker that has occupied the mind of Dr. Deavel. He contrasts the irreligious early life of Chesterton with the two previous figures we discussed, but notes the similarities in how his faith was shaped early in adulthood, eventually culminating in his admission that he was Christian by age 26 and eventual conversion to Catholicism in 1922. We then veer into the world of Alfred Hitchcock who was influenced by Chesterton but took a much different religious trajectory. Prof. Deavel notes the religious influences in Hitchcock’s life and how he came back to Catholicism at the end of his life. Our conversation ends with some reflections by David on what this eclectic path of study he has taken has revealed to him over time. Recorded: February 23, 2018.

Prof. David Deavel’s Academia.edu page (where you can find his various articles).

LOGOS: A Journal of Catholic Thought and Culture.

The Catholic Controversy, by St. Francis De Sales.

Introduction to the Devout Life, by St. Francis De Sales.

The Idea of a University, by John Henry Newman.

Orthodoxy, by G.K. Chesterton.

“The Ballad of the White Horse,” by G.K. Chesterton.

Martin Luther Insult Generator (mentioned in podcast).

Pope Francis Insult Generator (also mentioned in podcast in an ecumenical spirit).

RELATED PODCASTS

Brian O’Neel on Saint Who? Some Holy Unknowns.

Brian O’Neel on the Saints of January.

Brian O’Neel on the Saints of February.

Jim Tonkowich on Converting to Catholicism.

Corey Olsen on J.R.R. Tolkien.

Louis Markos on the Poetry of Heaven and Hell.

Micah Watson on C.S. Lewis.

Jeff Rose on Street Preaching (Encore Presentation)

tonygill — Sun, 04 Feb 2018 09:00:12 +0000

What would you do if you were a street preacher and someone poured beer on your head, blew smoke in your face, and threatened you with a knife? Jeff Rose, founder of JeremiahCry Ministries with his wife Pearl, has had that experience and he reveals his response in this fascinating interview that covers Jeff’s path to the street preaching profession and what it takes to be a street preacher. Tony starts out by asking if Jeff if he is crazy. It is not an uncommon question that folks who pass street preachers cannot help but ask. Jeff provides a remarkably insightful answer to this question revealing that he has asked himself this question on more than one occasion, but then explains what keeps him going. We then review Jeff’s life growing up, his career as a personal fitness trainer and gym owner, and what led him to pick up the cause of the Gospel. The journey is one that takes him from a small Pentecostal church to a large megachurch and then back to a smaller community where he connects with several other individuals that propel him down the road to street preaching. As an aside we chat about what Jeff didn’t like about megachurches, a theme that connects with some of our earlier podcasts. Jeff then describes how he found himself engaged in a life of street preaching after attending seminary and moving to Scotland. The last portion of our interview tackles some of what occurs in the life of a street preacher, including thinking about what venues will be most attractive, how to deal with crowds, the funniest moment he encountered, as well as the most dangerous. Jeff finishes by revealing his optimistic attitude towards the spiritual life of American and the United Kingdom. Recorded December 1, 2011.

RELATED LINKS

JeremiahCry Ministries (includes videos and audio of street preaching).

Jeff Rose preaching at Staten Island Ferry Station (YouTube video).

Paul Washer, Jeff Rose, and Jeff Gordon Discuss Public Preaching (YouTube video).

RELATED PODCASTS

Allison Pond on Being a Mormon Missionary.

Dough Johnston on Missionizing Romania.

Jeff Henig on Prison Ministry.

Daniel Stiles on Cowboy Churches.

Dave Travis on Megachurch Myths.

James Brettell on Trends in American Christianity.

Matt Boswell on Starting a New Church.

Anthony Esolen on Timeless Hymns

tonygill — Sun, 14 Jan 2018 09:00:02 +0000

St. Augustine once said, “He who sings, prays twice.” Music has been a powerful component of Christian worship for its entire existence, and Prof. Anthony Esolen, a faculty fellow at Thomas More College of Liberal Arts, joins us to discuss the nature and importance of the truly timeless hymns. We begin as we usually do with a chat about our guest’s personal background. Dr. Esolen enlightens us about Thomas More College (in Merrimack, New Hampshire), a new program he is setting up, and why he decided to translate a work of literature that had already been translated (Dante’s Inferno). Following that brief discussion, we dive into the world of religious music and start off with a wonderful thought by St. Augustine who said, “He who sings, prays twice.” Prof. Esolen explains the importance of music in worship and observes that the first element to go in a church on the verge of decline is the music. We then discuss “timeless hymns” and Tony (Esolen) lays out a list of characteristics that make such music so enduring including the fact that they are passed down over generations, but also other aspects such as logical progressions from stanza to stanza, proper word choice and imagery, and the meter of the song. Esolen notes how much of contemporary Christian music is too maudlin, prompting Tony (Gill) to make an odd reference to Seals & Croft from the 1970s.

Our conversation also covers why some periods in history tended to create a great flourishing of hymns, and Dr. Esolen makes an argument that we are in the doldrums now (and have been for the past century) as our culture has lost its connection to poetry. Noting the importance of poetry throughout all cultures and eras, he explains this loss as the result of academics making poetry too esoteric and cut off from common people (who have used poetry to tell stories throughout the ages). He also warns of the dangers of making poetry to overtly political. Later in the interview, we also discuss why Protestants did so well in crafting timeless hymns in the 18th and 19th centuries, noting that they had a mission to take the Scriptures to the average person in the pews. He sings the praises of folks such as the Wesleys and Robert Bridges.

The second half of our discussion walks through a series of themes that are found in hymns, starting with their origins in the Psalms. Prof. Esolen points out that Jesus prayed the Psalms and that music was important from the earliest stages of Christianity, as noted by St. Paul. We also discuss the difficulty in translating Hebrew, which is a much more “concentrated” language, into English in a way that preserved the meter, meaning, and poetry of the original verses written in the Old Testament. It is at this point where we feature a clip from the CD included with Real Music, Prof. Esolen’s book. The first one is “The King of Love My Shepherd Is,” written by Henry Baker (1868) and performed by the St. Cecilia Choir at St. John Cantius Church in Chicago, Illinois. (All music clips are from the same choir.) Another important theme within the great hymns examines the divine nature of Jesus. Here we listen to and discuss “Let All Mortal Flesh Keep Silence,” by Gerard Moultrie (1864). Other themes include the importance of the Nativity, which although we frequently attribute to a time of great merriment in our Christmas carols, was a time of great tribulations for people in Judea. Dr. Esolen helps us understand the critical difference between “joy” and “pleasure,” noting that joy and sorrow are two emotions that are often linked together as they were at the birth of Jesus. The hymn illustrating the Nativity is “Of the Father’s Love Begotten” (John Mason Neale’s 1854 translation of a 4th century hymn). We also discuss the music teaching us of the Crucifixion and Resurrection (with “Ah, Holy Jesus,” by Robert Bridges) and “the Church militant,” a set of songs that encourage congregants to take their faith forward into the world. Here Dr. Esolen explains how our culture has done itself a disservice recently by downplaying the martial energy of young men that could be brought to bear for the promotion of Christianity. He notes that “battle themes” are common in the Bible and religious music over time. We listen to Charles Wesley’s “Soldiers of Christ, Arise” and Tony (Esolen) points out the powerful nature of such music.

We finish our discussion by asking our guest what he would tell a young Tony Esolen some 30 or 40 years ago at the outset of his career. Tony, the RoR host, presses Tony, the guest, to talk about some of the things he has learned over the decades and Prof. Esolen cautions us on the decay of culture over this period and how we must trust the Word of God. Recorded: December 29, 2017.

(Note: Copyright permission for music clips provided by TAN Books and Fr. Scott Haynes of St. Cecilia Choir. Documents on file with host.)

Real Music: A Guide to the Timeless Hymns of the Church, by Anthony Esolen.

Ironies of Faith: The Laughter at the Heart of Christian Literature, by Anthony Esolen.

Out of the Ashes: Rebuilding America’s Culture, by Anthony Esolen.

Ten Ways to Destroy the Imagination of Your Child, by Anthony Esolen.

Angels, Barbarians, and Nincompoops and a Lot of Other Words You Thought You Knew, by Anthony Esolen.

Anthony Esolen’s Amazon page (with other books and translations).

Touchstone (magazine where Anthony Esolen is a Senior Editor).

St. John Cantius Church (Chicago), home of the St. Cecilia Choir.

RELATED PODCASTS

Robert Coote on the 27 Most Popular Hymns and Amazing Grace.

Mark Lawson-Jones on Christmas Carols.

Ryan Habig on Music Ministry and “With Us” (an original song).

Jim Houser on the Christian Music Industry.

Jim Papandrea on Christology, Superheroes, and Science Fiction Films

tonygill — Sun, 17 Dec 2017 09:00:40 +0000

Is Superman the representation of the Christ figure par excellent on celluloid? Do the writers of Star Trek share a Christian view of humanity? And what can The Terminator tell us about Christology and soteriology? These may not be questions that you hear debated at a theological seminary or a ComiCon gathering, but they are issues that pique the interest of Prof. James Papandrea, associate professor of Church history at the Garrett-Evangelical Theological Seminary and author of the new book From Star Wars to Superman: Christ Figures in Science Fiction and Superhero Films. Jim, a frequent guest on our show and a fan of science fiction films, informs us that he has been thinking about Christian themes in movies ever since he taught a class on religion and film a few decades ago, and his fascination with how the Christ story is portrayed on screen finally culminated in this book, which comes across not only as a fun exploration of superheroes and space aliens, but also teaches readers some deep insights into Christology and soteriology. Prof. Papandrea explains what Christology and soteriology are — the study of the nature of Christ and salvation, respectively — and why they are important to the understanding of different portrayals of “salvation figures” in film. We review his categorization of various movie characters based upon the orthodox nature of Christ laid out in the Nicene Creed, and he further covers the different understandings of Christology and soteriology. One big difference we review is whether a writer has an “descent” view of the Christ figure, wherein a divine being is sent down to save humanity, or an “ascent” perspective wherein a mortal human takes on the salvific features of the divine. Jim notes that the latter view is associated with the theology of Arianism, which was what the Council of Nicaea was reacting to 1700 years ago. We also discuss theological views of human nature so as to be aware of whether various authors/directors are promoting a pessimistic view of humanity as sinful and in need of rescue, or a more “optimistic” view wherein humanity can perfect itself without recourse to the divine.

With these cards on the table, we then dive into an exploration of various celluloid heroes, starting first with the characters of the DC Comics Universe — Superman, Wonder Woman, and Batman. (We note that Jim is analyzing these characters through the more recent depictions on film and doesn’t address the various ways they have been portrayed historically in comic books and other media.) Both Superman and Wonder Woman represent an “descent” Christology wherein divine-like beings that are not like humans come to save humanity from their more destructive characteristics. Batman, on the other hand, can be understood as a “ascent” (Arian) view of a savoir figure, as many of the characters within the Marvel Cinematic Universe can as well (e.g., Iron Man, Captain America, Spider-Man). We also discuss the role of evil in the world in the personification of Lex Luthor and draw a few parallels between the DC and Marvel worlds. Interestingly, while the Superman portrayed in the recent Man of Steel film comes across vividly as a Christ-like figure, he is not the most orthodox characterization of the heroes studied by Dr. Papandrea. That prize goes to Doctor Who, and Jim explains why as we move into the section of his book that deals with time travel and how it relates to the notion of incarnation. Here we also wrestle with the religious themes of movies such as The Time Machine, The Terminator, and (to Tony’s surprise) Planet of the Apes. Along the way in our discussion, Tony asks whether many of the screenwriters and directors have a conscious strategy of mimicking the Christ story in their works, or whether the themes arise subconsciously or are envisioned solely by the audience. Jim replies that it is a mixed bag, although he notes that while the various writers of Doctor Who over the decades have been some of the most atheistic screenwriters, religious themes are infused throughout the long-running series.

It is then on to space, the final frontier, where we examine the religious storylines within Star Trek, Star Wars, and other films such as The Fifth Element. Here Jim talks about his interview with Ronald Moore who is a screenwriter for many of the episodes on various Trek series and a student of the genre. He talks about how Moore considered himself an atheist but has since come around to agnosticism. We also talk about the interesting themes and tensions within this “outer space” genre. Star Trek takes a very optimistic view of humanity, noting that perfection is within our grasp if we unshackle ourselves from religion. Star Wars, on the other hand, and an interesting theological theme of equilibrium in the universe being a balance of good an evil, and that if the universe is “too good,” evil must be brought into it. Another big reveal is that one of Jim’s favorite movies is The Fifth Element and the character of Leeloo scores high on his orthodoxy ranking. Tony then asks Jim to uncover the theological themes in 2001: A Space Odyssey, and both of us end up agreeing that we can’t understand what was going in that film at all. (It should be noted, in all fairness, that Jim does not discuss 2001 in his book, so this was a curveball thrown to him by Tony at the last minute.) Our conversation ends with Jim’s thoughts on what Christians should take away from these various cinematic representations of the Christ figure, and what themes most authors/directors in the genre tend to get wrong about Christianity. This leads to some interesting thoughts about sin, injustice, and humanity’s separation from God. Finally, Jim reveals that he is in the midst of writing a historical fiction novel that will hopefully appear in 2018 and Tony extends an invitation to him to come back and discuss this when it hits shelves. Recorded: December 12, 2017.

Jim Papandrea’s personal website (including links to his books, musings, and music).

From Star Wars to Superman: Christ Figures in Science Fiction and Superhero Films, by James Papandrea.

Browse Prof. Papandrea’s many other books over at doctorjimsbooks at Amazon.com.

RELATED PODCASTS

Jim Papandrea on the Catholicism of Early Christianity.

Jim Papandrea on Christianity’s Seven Revolutions.

Jim Papandrea on the End of the World and Revelation.

Jim Papandrea on the Church Fathers and Patristic Exegesis.

Robert Joustra on Zombies, Cylons, Charles Taylor, and the Apocalypse.

Matthew Moore on Buddhism and the Robopocalypse

Michael Medved on Religion and Hollywood.

Jon Sweeney on “Its a Wonderful Life.”

John Mark Reynolds on Dickens and “A Christmas Carol.”

John Errington on “A Long Way Off” and Religious Movie Making.

Tim Kelleher on the Nicene Creed.

Michael Medved on Religion & Hollywood (encore presentation)

tonygill — Sun, 03 Dec 2017 09:00:54 +0000

While Tony is still on a short sabbatical and trying to make improvements to the audio files of our show, we invite you to enjoy this interesting podcast from five years ago. There are now over 350 unique episodes in our archives, so please feel free to search our archives and tell a friend.

Does Hollywood portray religion in a negative light? If so, why? And has it always been that way? We take up these questions and many more with film critic, radio talk show host, author, and cultural crusader Michael Medved. Michael is the author of numerous books on Hollywood and other topics (see below) and has served as a film critic for over 25 years. We discuss how he managed to find himself in that position as well as what life is like for a movie critic. He details his personal story within that profession as well as providing insights into how critics review movies. Michael discusses his role in the critics’ controversy surrounding Mel Gibson’s The Passion of the Christ, wherein pundits became highly critical of this film even before seeing any footage! We then turn our attention to why Hollywood has shifted from making movies such as The Bells of St. Mary and Going My Way, wherein religious figures and institutions are presented favorably, to films such as Agnes of God and The Pope Must Die, theatrical releases that didn’t necessarily hold the same view of spiritual faith. Tony notes that this change seemed to have occurred in the late 1960s. Michael reveals how a change in the Motion Picture Production Code of 1930 (i.e., The Hays Code) occured in the mid-1960s giving way to the current rating system that we see today. This change paved the way for studios to make more “edgy” R-rated films. We discuss how the 1970s saw a dearth of G-rated theatrical releases. Michael points out that even though such family-friendly films make drastically more money than R-rated movies, producers still favor the latter. The incentive structure for filmmakers and producers is not always (or often) to make a profit, but rather to earn the accolades of those within the industry. This is why the demans of “Middle America” are often unmet at the local cineplex. Not to worry, though, there has been a trend over the past two decades to offer more films pitched to a church-going audience. We talk about how the ability to make movies has become more accessible and groups like Affirm Films can make highly popular films such as Fireproof, Facing the Giants, and Soul Surfer. Hollywood has noticed the success of these films as well as The Passion and we are seeing more options portraying religious folks as heroes rather than villians. Our conversation also includes a discussion not only of what we see on the silver screen, but what occurs with movie stars off screen. We look into the somewhat deviant culture of Hollywood and Michael provides his insights into why so many actors and actresses seem to engage in destructive behavior. Along the way, we find out what the worst movie of all time was, and Tony reveals three of his favorite films of all time dealing with the eternal themes of skyscrapers, fish, and football. Recorded: November 28, 2012.

RELATED LINKS

The Michael Medved Show.

Hollywood versus America, by Michael Medved.

The Fifty Worst Movies of All Time, updated version by Harry Medved (Michael’s brother and earlier co-author).

The Golden Turkey Awards: The Worst Achievements in Hollywood History, by Michael Medved and Harry Medved.

The American Miracle: Divine Providence in the Rise of the Republic, by Michael Medved.

The 10 Big Lies About America: Combating Destructive Distortions about Our Nation, by Michael Medved.

The 5 Big Lies About American Business: Combating Smears Against the Free-Market Economy, by Michael Medved.

Right Turns: From Liberal Activist to Conservative Champion in 35 Unconventional Lessons, by Michael Medved.

Saving Childhood: Protecting Our Children from the National Assault on Innocence, by Michael Medved and Diane Medved.

What Really Happened to the Class of ’65?, by Michael Medved and David Wallechinsky.

RELATED PODCASTS

Robert Joustra on Zombies, Cylons, Charles Taylor, and the Apocalypse.

Jon Sweeney on “Its A Wonderful Life.”

John Mark Reynolds on “A Christmas Carol.”

John Errington on “A Long Way Off” and Religious Movie Making.

Corey Olsen on J.R.R. Tolkien, Religion, and The Hobbit.

Jim Houser on the Christian Music Industry.

Linda Weiser Friedman on Jewish Humor.

Tracy McKenzie on the First Thanksgiving (Annual Encore)

tonygill — Sun, 19 Nov 2017 16:33:01 +0000

While Tony is taking an extended sabbatical and trying to update some technical issues with the audio, we encourage you to enjoy this annual favorite of his.

What events led up to the “First” Thanksgiving and what was life like for the Pilgrims who celebrated it? Prof. Tracy McKenzie, a professor in the Department of History at Wheaton College, takes up this topic from the vantage point of a Christian historian. He challenges some of our “grade school” understandings of what that event was all about, but in a manner that retains the reverence for the people and events during that time.

We start our conversation by looking at the topic of “revisionist history.” Prof. McKenzie provides a very profound and nuanced discussion of what it means to be “revisionist,” while simultaneously admitting that he is not a fan of that term. A good portion of what Tracy does in his most recent work is not only to discuss Thanksgiving, but is designed to prompt Christians to think critically about their history as a means of living their faith more honestly. As part of this, we quickly learn that the “First” Thanksgiving celebrated on the fourth Thursday of every November is not actually the first thanksgiving in the New World. Tracy explains why this is.

We then explore who the Pilgrims were and what motivated them to eventually set sail for Virginia, initially, but had them landing in modern day Massachusetts. This discussion includes what the Pilgrims believed theologically and how they acted out their faith. Surprisingly, we discover that the Pilgrims were very averse to celebrating the traditional holidays we take for granted today, such as Christmas and Easter, but rather considered only Sunday as the only “holy day.” Prof. McKenzie then shares how “days of thanksgiving” were celebrated by the Pilgrims, but not as a regular holiday but rather as a “particular holy day” that would only be called on special occasions.

We also bring up several other characteristics of the Pilgrims that might surprise us, including their dislike of the King James Bible and how they prayed with eyes upward rather than heads bowed. And one of the more interesting aspects of the Pilgrims to come up was that they never gave thanks for their food before eating, although they did pray to have the food blessed. The political views of these Separatists then comes into our discussion as well as the diversity of the passengers aboard the Mayflower and how that diversity would be managed with the Mayflower Compact. The economic conditions of the Pilgrims in their first year falls under our scrutiny, observing that they first set out with a communal farming structure but this breaks down after two years and William Bradford agrees to privatize parcels of land.

Other topics covered include relations with the Wampanoags, how the “first” Thanksgiving was celebrated, and how this event is forgotten for nearly 200 years until it came to capture the American imagination in the 1820s and ’40s. Tracy also reveals how Thanksgiving was considered a “Yankee” holiday during the secessionist crisis that led up to the Civil War and how it eventually became a nationally-recognized holiday under the FDR administration.

Prof. McKenzie finishes the interview with his own reflections on what this story of Thanksgiving has meant to him and his family, and how Christians need to celebrate their history as well as remembering it for what it really is. His insights as a father, and not just a historian, should resonate with many of our listeners. This is an encore presentation. Recorded: November 5, 2012.

Faith & History, Tracy McKenzie’s personal blog.

The First Thanksgiving, by Tracy McKenzie.

Lincolnites and Rebels: A Divided Town in the American Civil War, by Tracy McKenzie.

One South or Many? Plantation Belt and Upcountry in Civil War Era Tennessee, by Tracy McKenzie.

RELATED PODCASTS

Thomas Kidd on the Pilgrims.

Scott Carroll on the King James Bible.

Evan Haefeli on the Dutch Origins of Religious Liberty.

Carmel Chiswick on the Economics of Being Jewish in America (Encore Presentation)

tonygill — Sun, 12 Nov 2017 09:00:02 +0000

Welcome new visitors. Please enjoy this episode and other great discussions in our archives (now 350+ episodes deep), and connect with us on Facebook and Twitter.
Also, we are on a short sabbatical but will return soon with some crescent fresh interviews.

What are the various cost constraints with being Jewish in America? Prof. Carmel Chiswick, a research professor of economics at George Washington University, uses the lens of economics to reveal the various constraints facing a religious minority in the United States and how this affects Jewish culture. We walk through her book Judaism in Transition: How Economic Choices Shape Religious Tradition.

We start the conversation with a general overview of Jews in America, including the size of the population, their immigration history, and other demographic features. It is pointed out that Jews are both an ethnic group, and a group with a distinct religion. We chat a bit about how Jewish (in terms of religion) Jews are in America. Prof. Chiswick then discusses the difference between Great Tradition and small tradition Judaism. The former focuses on the essential religious components of Judaism, including the Torah, Talmud, Mishnah and several key holy days. Small tradition Judaism, on the other hand, is a reflection of different cultural practices and emphases that can vary across different groups of Jews (e.g., Spehardi or Ashkenazi) and across time. This is mixed with some personal reflection on her own life growing up Jewish, which gives this academic topic a much more personal touch. Carmel explains why she chose to write her book with these personal stories, noting that she uses economics everyday to understand her own daily choices.

We then begin a discussion of how economics is used to explain Jewish behavior and traditions. Carmel gives us a good introduction of how actions not only have a financial cost but a time cost as well, resulting in what economists call the “full price” (or “real cost”). She points out that there are a variety of constraints on Jews in America that affect how they make decisions about worship and other aspects of life. For example, as an individual becomes wealthier, the cost of their time also increases and this has an impact on how synagogue worship has been conducted given that Jews have been an upwardly mobile community. We also talk about the issue of human capital and education and the constrained choices that have to be made here. Carmel reflects upon her family’s decision whether to send their children to Hebrew or public school, as well as the reliance upon summer camps and other activities that are designed to preserve Jewish religious culture in an environment where time becomes more valuable for professional parents.

Carmel next lays out some of the contemporary challenges facing Jews in America. Most notable among these challenges are the new demographic categories that are emerging, principally “young adult singles” and “empty nesters.” With marriage ages increasing quite substantially over the past few decades, there is a growing population of individuals in their 20s and early 30s who are not married, do not have children, and who do not feel as connected to the synagogue. Whereas people often connect with religious institutions when they have children, and synagogues often cater to the needs of this group, the decade or so wherein individuals are not married or having children becomes a time when they can drift away from their faith. We also discuss the issue of intermarriage and how that might affect the Jewish population in the future. Interestingly, the rise of “young adult singles” also gives rise to another demographic group known as “empty nesters” who are not actively raising kids yet are not grandparents either. Once again, this becomes a life cycle point where people do not feel as connected to the synagogue. (Note: These issues arise again in next week’s podcast with Daniel Libenson, who discusses some attempts to deal with this new environment.)

We finish off with some of Carmel’s personal observations on what she has learned in her years studying the economics of religion, being Jewish in America, and writing her highly readable book. Recorded: April 7, 2015.

Judaism in Transition: How Economic Choices Shape Religious Tradition, by Carmel U. Chiswick.

Association for the Study of Religion, Economics, and Culture (ASREC).

RELATED PODCASTS

Carmel Chiswick on the Economics of American Judaism.

Daniel Libenson on the Jewish Future.

Linda Weiser Friedman on Jewish Humor.

Colleen Haight on Jewish Peddlers in 19th Century America.

Larry Iannaccone on Sacrifice, Stigma, and the Economics of Religion.

Jeff Levin on Judaism and Health.

Mark Glickman on the Cairo Genizah.

Mark Koyama on the Economics of Jewish Expulsions.

Ken Wald on the Puzzling Politics of American Jews.

Ellie Estrin on the Traditions of Chanukah.

Rajdeep Singh on American Sikhs and Religious Liberty.

James Hudnut-Beumler on the History of Church Financing in the US

tonygill — Sun, 01 Oct 2017 08:00:39 +0000

While congregations may pray for manna from heaven, financing a religious institution often relies upon hard work, creativity, and direct appeals to parishioners to contribute to the provision of the clergy and the buildings. Prof. James Hudnut-Beumler, the Anne Potter Wilson Distinguished Professor of Religious History at Vanderbilt University, discusses his historical studies of how American Protestant churches changed their funding models over the past two and a half centuries. We begin with a personal story of how Dr. Hudnut-Beumler came to be interested in the economics behind church funding, and he regales us with a story of his chance meeting with Ben Bernake (yet to become chairman of the Federal Reserve). Upon finding out that Jim studied religion, Bernake told him how economics predicts that women would be more religiously active then men. We talk a bit more about the appropriateness of using economics to understand the world of religion, and Jim notes that one of the most important concepts that economics contributes to a humanities-based approach is the notion of value. Indeed, the becomes important later in our interview when we ask Prof. Hudnut-Beumler about his own personal reflections on his research and how it helped him in his religious vocation as a Presbyterian minister. We then work our way through a history of American Protestantism and how funding models have changed over time.

Jim notes that there are three common tensions or ironies that run throughout this history including: clergy who raise money “for God” understand that they are really paying for their own salary; the spiritualization of appeals for financing; and the increasing voluntary nature of church tithing. Jim points out that roughly two-thirds of the cost of running a congregation goes to personnel in the form of salaries and other compensation. During America’s colonial history, much of the needed funding was collected via taxes collected by local governments. This began to change during the First Great Awakening as itinerant ministers and upstart churches would compete with the state-funded churches for members and funds. By the end of the 18th century and into the early 19th century, congregations lost support of state funding and needed to make new appeals to members to voluntarily contribute to churches. We talk a bit about the “pew rent” model and learn, as a fun fact, that the raised boxes of seating in many churches were to house heated bricks to keep the wealthier congregants warmer in the winter. Not only was it valuable to sit up front near the preacher, but that was also where the heating was! Another development in the first half of the 1800s was the rise of the “Benevolence Empire,” wherein colporteurs and other charity entrepreneurs would raise funds for specific causes. Realizing that this was competing with a fixed set of dollars that congregants were giving to religious causes, church congregations also got into this business leading to a dramatic increase in the amount of charitable funding during this era. Another fascinating development, and one which surprised Prof. Hudnut-Beumler, was the emphasis placed on constructing and remodeling church buildings. Whereas we are often treated with iconic photos of churches that exist “as they were in colonial days,” the truth of the matter is that church buildings were constantly undergoing change as individual congregants saw building or remodeling a church as a way to demonstrate devotion to God and to take pride in one’s own congregation.

The next phase of church financing occurred after the Civil War and up to World War I. Here Jim emphasizes a rediscovery of tithing and stewardship, noting how religious rhetoric tended to spiritualize the notion of giving, making it appear as one’s duty to God as compared to the mere need to support the pastor and keep the building looking tidy. Also during this era, clergy began to see themselves as professionals, much the way one would envision a business manager or banker. A number of congregations responded to this by altering how they compensated their clergy, and Jim provides examples of the Presbyterians who insisted upon supporting their ministers and missionaries on a salary that was equivalent to that of a local school superintendent. United Lutherans developed another model of investing in pensions for their clergy so they knew they would be taken care of after their retirement. We then talk about the developments that occur in the latter half of the 20th century and how growing suburbanization led to increased demands for a “seven day church” that was used for athletic and other social activities. Church sizes began to increase as did the spread of non-denominational churches. We then talk about how automated teller machines (ATMs) and the rise of “plastic money” has changed the giving model, with many churches turning to weekly debits from bank accounts as a way to smooth out the annual giving cycle. Jim tells us about how his father, a minister, would be somewhat concerned about family expenses going into the summer as that was the time when contributions were at their lowest. (Tony notes that another guest on the podcast brought up this same issue, Pastor Larry Osborne, who Tony mistakenly refers to as Robert Osborne. Oops.) We conclude our discussion some of Rev. Hudnut-Beumler’s own personal reflections about what he has learned in his studies and how it has affected his ministry. He emphasized the importance of speaking plainly and transparently to congregants about the need for funding. Recorded: September 29, 2017.

In Pursuit of the Almighty’s Dollar: A History of Money and American Protestantism, by James Hudnut-Beumler.

“Why Cash Remains Sacred in American Churches,” by James Hudnut-Beumler (on RealClearReligion).

Looking for God in the Suburbs: The Religion of the American Dream and Its Critics, 1945-1965, by James Hudnut-Beumler.

Generous Saints: Congregations Rethinking Money and Ethics, by James Hudnut-Beumler.

The History of the Riverside Church in the City of New York, by Peter Paris, et al. (including James Hudnut-Beumler).

The Fabric of Faithfulness: Weaving Together Belief and Behavior, by Steven Garber (mentioned in the podcast).

RELATED PODCASTS

Larry Osborne on Church Finances and Growth.

John Fea on the American Bible Society.

Michael McConnell on Church Property Disputes.

Phillip Sinitierre on the Osteens and Lakewood Church.

Richard Hammar on Churches, Taxes, Donations, and Liability.

Mike McBride on the Economics of Church Leadership.

Thom Rainer on Baptist Conventions and Church Health.

Jordan Lorence on Religious Property Cases.

Rodney Stark on Myths of the Reformation

tonygill — Sun, 17 Sep 2017 08:00:00 +0000

Everybody knows that the Protestant Reformation ushered in what eventually became an era of scientific enlightenment, economic development, and secularization to Europe. Or did it? Prof. Rodney Stark, co-founder of Baylor University’s Institute for Studies of Religion, says “Nonsense!” to many of these so-called historical truths as we walk through some common myths and misconceptions of the famous religious movement that Martin Luther set rolling. We begin first by noting that there really wasn’t just a single Reformation, but at least three including Luther’s protest, Calvin’s subsequent religious movement, and King Henry VIII’s English Reformation, which wasn’t so much a change in theology as it was a transfer of authority. Prof. Stark also points out that once Catholicism’s exit door was opened and excommunication was off the table as a form of punishment, Protestantism became a fissiparous movement that underwent continual reformations leading to thousands of recognizably distinct Christian denominations today. We further learn that “Protestantism” was a term first used by the Catholic Church, and not by the individuals protesting Rome’s monopoly dominance of Christian theology. The next myth that we wander into is that the Reformation (writ large for all the various reformations) was a religious rebellion of the masses. Here Rod points out that Europe was not deeply religious in the sense of being steeped in official Catholic doctrine, but rather was a mish-mash of popular Christianity, pagan rituals, and other non-Christian superstitions and rituals. The lower classes seldom attended religious services during the supposed “golden age” of Christianity, and when they did it was often raucous affairs, not the solemn worship services often depicted in paintings and literature. Social movements, he points out, are rarely ever spurred on by the poor, but rather by economic and cultural elites that have the time and motivations to organize collective action. We address the German Peasant’s War (sometimes Revolt) of 1524-25 as possible evidence of a popular religious uprising, but this was merely the one in a long string of sporadic peasant revolts against unfavorable economic conditions. Rod notes that the reason why some regions of Europe tended to “go Protestant” while others stayed Catholic had little to do with popular sentiment and more to do with elite politics and the economic position of princes to the Vatican in terms of debt owed. Poland is brought up as a curious case of a region that initially sided with Protestantism, but then returned to the Catholic fold. Rod further points out that Protestantism did not lead to an uptick in formalized religious worship, citing the work of a historian who actually took a census of church attendance and rolls during the 16th century.

The next issues that we tackle are not so much myths as they are misfortunes. Prof. Stark explains why he sees Protestantism as providing for the cultural and political conditions that gave rise to European nationalism, that had some beneficial aspects in coagulating states, but also led to a number of extremely vicious wars between rival geographies. Rod further notes that what the Protestant Reformation(s) did was really end Christendom, the spiritual language that kept Europe pieced together during some rather fragmented centuries, at least amongst the political elite. We then go on to discuss whether or not Christianity was the impetus behind the Scientific Revolution and, eventually, the Enlightenment. Rod corrects the record about the so-called Dark Ages in that there was still a great deal of scientific and technological progress that was occurring in the centuries prior to Luther, and that the seeds of capitalism were also sown and growing long before there could have been a Protestant Ethic. Rod explains that many of these notions were promoted by scholars who held an anti-Catholic agenda (e.g., Voltaire) and were uncritically accepted by scholars up to present day (although he also points out that many contemporary historians are setting the record straight). All this then leads us to consider the purported rise of individualism and secularization in the modern (post-18th century) era. Again, Rod emphasizes that Europe never really secularized because it always was relatively secular in terms of large numbers of people avoiding religious institutions, and what constitutes the notion of “individualism” today has always been around in some form.

We finish off with a brief discussion of one of Prof. Stark’s other recent books, Why God? Explaining Religious Phenomenon. His main critique here is that social scientists have typically approached religion as something that has nothing to do with God, citing the likes of Emile Durkheim who considered religion to be something other than an institutional connection to the transcendent or supernatural. Rod corrects the record by noting that scholars need to take the actual beliefs of the people they study seriously, and if they say they are creating organizations for the purpose of worshiping God, then that must might be what they are doing. He leaves us with some critical words of wisdom, which is always to be suspicious of the received wisdom. Recorded: August 21, 2017.

(Note: Prof. Stark has always been one of my informal academic mentors, and was a close neighbor of mine when he lived in Washington State. Following our formal interview, we had a nice chat about bears, bobcats, and coyotes in the area that I live. We shared a number of other “everyday stories.” It was a simple conversation, but a truly delightful one that should remind us about the importance of living one’s daily life.)

Baylor University’s Institute for Studies of Religion.

Reformation Myths: Five Centuries of Misconceptions and (Some) Misfortunes, by Rodney Stark.

Why God? Explaining Religious Phenomenon, by Rodney Stark.

For the Glory of God: How Monotheism Led to Reformations, Science, Witch Hunts, and the End of Slavery, by Rodney Stark.

Bearing False Witness: Debunking Centuries of Anti-Catholic History, by Rodney Stark.

The Triumph of Faith: Why the World Is More Religious than Ever, by Rodney Stark.

See Prof. Stark’s personal website (link above) or his Amazon author page for a full listing of titles.

RELATED PODCASTS

Protestant Reformation Series.

Emily Fisher Gray on Luther’s 95 Theses.

Rob Sorenson on Martin Luther’s Life.

Steven Pfaff on the World of 1517.