Research On Religion » social order

David Patel on Religion & Social Order in Iraq (Encore Presentation)

tonygill — Sun, 29 Apr 2018 08:00:13 +0000

We are still on a break. In the meantime, enjoy one of Tony’s favorite interviews from the past.

Why have many women in the Middle East resorted to increasingly conservative modes of dress in recent decades? And what happens after a political regime rapidly collapses leaving society in near total chaos as happened in Iraq in 2003? Dr. David Patel, a junior research fellow at the Crown Center for Middle East Studies at Brandeis University, answers these questions and accounts for the rise and success of ISIS by using a political-economic approach to religious institutions and behavior. He links these various topics through the importance of social coordination, signaling, and common knowledge to a society, and explains why Shiites were more successful in limiting violence and providing public goods than Sunnis were in Iraq following the US invasion in 2003.

Our conversation begins with a bit of methodological banter as Tony asks David about the various analytical tools he uses including game theory, geospatial analysis, and ethnography. These theoretical and empirical techniques are rarely employed in conjunction with one another in the social sciences, and David offers a spirited defense of his multi-disciplinary approach and notes that ethnography has received a bad rap in the field of political science. We also talk about how these tools came to be applied to the study of religion and politics in the Middle East, and David and Tony share stories about how manuscript reviewers told them to submit their work to sociology journals since what they did “wasn’t political science.”

We then turn to the topic of “veiling” broadly construed. David quickly corrects Tony’s use of that term noting that “veiling” refers to a covering of the face, but many forms of Islamic conservative attire need not do that, including the use of gloves or simple headscarves (hijabs). Nonetheless, David has noted an increase in the use of more concealing clothing amongst Muslim women in the past several decades. He links this phenomenon to the growing interest among all women for more modest and non-Western forms of apparel. However, when all (or most) women began wearing more conservative attire in the 1970s and ’80s, it created a situation where highly pious women were less able to signal their piety to potential mates in the marriage market. As such, there was a ramping up of concealing clothing so that the truly pious could differentiate themselves from those with less religious commitment. He explains this in the context of a societal marriage market and makes a case that social scientists should pay much more attention to this aspect of society. David further observes that there have been similar trends among men, with the length of beards and style of shoes being important markers for signaling religious adherence.

The discussion shifts gears in a seemingly different direction as we pick up on the topic of Dr. Patel’s current book manuscript on the rebuilding of order in Iraq after the fall of Saddam Hussein. While appearing unrelated to the aforementioned topic of Islamic dress, the importance of information and coordination tie these two topics together. David notes how massive looting broke out in Iraq in mere days following the US invasion of Iraq and Hussein’s ouster as president. Such a chaotic situation is a rather untenable one for most people and the re-creation of social order becomes a necessity. Quickly after the collapse of the Iraqi state, we see the emergence of Friday mosque sermons as a means of coordinating local priorities, which is unusual as given that Friday sermons are comparatively rare. Shia mosques turned out to be more successful at coordinating such local priorities, facilitating common knowledge, and providing local public goods (e.g., trash pickup and security) as they had a more hierarchical structure under the direction of Ali al-Sistani.

We conclude our interview with David’s thoughts on the rise of ISIS, why it has been successful, and some of the misconceptions both pundits and policymakers have about its organizational structure. He notes that ISIS’s simple ability to provide public goods and social order in areas where such order is lacking is what can account for its success. We finish with some of David’s personal “ah ha!” moments in his research, including the importance of local social norms and the realization that religion is not merely instrumental but something people hold to be intrinsically valuable. Recorded: September 25, 2015.

David Patel on Religion & Social Order in Iraq

tonygill — Sun, 27 Sep 2015 08:00:45 +0000

Bob Subrick on Religion and Adam Smith, F.A. Hayek, and Vernon Smith

tonygill — Sun, 01 Dec 2013 09:00:15 +0000

Can you study religion through the framework of economics? Many philosophers think not, but Prof. Robert (Bob) Subrick, and associate professor of economics at James Madison University, says that you can. We discuss a recent paper he wrote that looks at how some very well known economists — Adam Smith, F.A. Hayek, and Vernon Smith — have studied this topic either directly or indirectly.

Our conversation begins with some background on Prof. Subrick himself, as it is somewhat rare to find an economist studying something other than banking, trade, or unemployment levels. While Bob does have an interest in long-term economic development the way we normally think of it (e.g., rising GDP), his interest in economic analysis was picqued by the likes of Gary Becker and Larry Iannaccone who have argued that economics can be applied to a broad swathe of social behavior. We discuss how Bob responds to his skeptics, why economists have long neglected the role of religion, and Tony shares some of his own stories as well.

Prof. Subrick then explains that the nexus where religion can come into play when studying economics, namely the issue of social order. He explains what “social order” means and why religion might play an important role in securing it, as well as being important to understanding long-term, historical growth. We then turn to the most famous economist to come out of the Scottish Enlightenment, Adam Smith. Surprisingly, and despite condensed versions of The Wealth of Nations that redact the material on religion, Adam Smith wrote extensively on this topic. We review his views on this topic, including the origins of religion, the social use of religion, and what happens when governments control the religious marketplace. While Smith is well-known for promoting the idea of laissez-faire economics, his strongest case for the benefits of the free market might actually in the passages that relate to religion. We also examine the potential tension between Smith’s two major works – The Wealth of Nations and The Theory of Moral Sentiments.

Following our discussion of Adam Smith, we move into the intellectual musings of two lesser known economists, F.A. Hayek and Vernon Smith, both of whom won Nobel Prizes in the Economic Sciences. We start with Hayek and Prof. Subrick explains who this guy is and what the Austrian School of Economics is, a perspective closely associated with Hayek. Interestingly, Bob reveals that even though Hayek had an interest in Christianity early in his life, his parents tried to keep theology away from him by hiding The Bible. We then find out that although Hayek did not write about religion very much, the last chapter in his last book – The Fatal Conceit – he argues how religion allows for a moral system that creates the basis for individual and long-distance trade.

Vernon Smith, no relation to Adam, becomes the intellectual we focus on last. Like Hayek, Smith – an experimental economist – never looks at religion as a central theme, but he nonetheless in his acceptance lecture for the Nobel Prize, he connects five of The Ten Commandments to the reduction of transaction costs in society, which in turn leads to greater economic flourishing. As usual, we end with Prof. Subrick’s personal reflections on what he has learned throughout his career in economics and how it relates to his understanding in religion, with a specific emphasis on what he has found on whether or not the “Protestant ethic” has led to greater economic growth. Recorded: October 29, 2013.