David Bentley Hart on Atheist Delusions

tonygill — Sun, 23 Feb 2014 09:00:32 +0000

A regular listener to the show recently requested we talk with David Bentley Hart about his book Atheist Delusions and we have so complied. Dr. Hart, an Eastern Orthodox theologian and prolific writer, joins us to talk about how the book came about as well as his counter-critiques to the critiques of Christianity that are often made by the “new atheists” (as well as some of the older atheists) with a wee bit of churlishness here and there.

Our discussion begins with how this award-winning book came about. We discover that he did not originally intend on writing such a book but was approached by an acquisitions editor from a publishing house with the general idea for this book in mind. This conversation reveals some of the fascinating “inside baseball” of the academic publishing business.

Following this discussion, we set out to define who the “new atheists” are, why they have appeared when they did, and what impact Dr. Hart thinks these folks have had on the general culture. Tony further inquires as to why they are “fashionable,” as per the title of Dr. Hart’s book, and a pithy response is provided. We compare them to the “old atheists,” who David argues had more substantive critiques of religion.

We then dive into David’s substantive responses to various claims made by atheists — new and old — regarding the deleterious effect that religion, specifically Christianity, has had on human history and progress. Prof. Hart explodes the myth that Christianity plunged Western civilization into a “dark age of knowledge,” by burning down libraries and tamping down scientific inquiry. He provides some interesting detail into how the trope of “library burning” came about, tracing it back to a short sentence based upon some historical hearsay in the work of 18th century historian Edward Gibbon. (That is “18th century” in the sense that Gibbon lived in the 1700s, not that he was a historian examining that era.) This sets off a conversation about how such myths are perpetuated in the populary imagery. Hart claims that no serious historian or other scholar accepts such reasoning, although the popular classes are easily fooled. We then touch upon the infamous Galileo incident. While popular imagery has it that the Vatican was acting to squash a heliocentric view of the universe and repress scienfitic inquiry, the reality was that this was a clash of personalities with the scientist not giving due respect to the powerful religious figures at the time. Portraying Church leaders as “simpletons” in one’s academic writing is not the best way to endear one to the religious officials who help fund one’s research. The topics of witch hunts and religiously-induced violence are also reviewed.

We then take up the question of whether or not the “Age of Reason” brought humanity out of these dark ages. This brings us to a discussion on the difference between modernity and Christianity and how modern society retains the echoes of the Christian revolution but is really drifting towards a soulless destiny likely devoid of true faith. We end on this cheery note. Recorded: February 21, 2014.

NOTE: I have done the best with the audio quality that I can without distorting any of the sound quality.

Rod Stark on the Triumph of Christianity, Part III

tonygill — Mon, 01 Oct 2012 08:00:20 +0000

Prof. Rodney Stark, co-founder and co-director of Baylor University’s Institute for Studies of Religion, joins us once again to talk about the final portion of his monumental book, The Triumph of Christianity. We pick up the story of Christianity’s growth and change with the Protestant Reformation. Prof. Stark notes that the Reformation wasn’t so much of a reform of the Church as it was a breakaway schismatic sect. Whereas there were numerous attempts at schism throughout Christian history, Rod points out that Martin Luther — who did not set out to break from the Vatican — just happened to be at the right place at the right time, which allowed his challenge to various Church doctrines to spread initially as a grassroots movement among the upper classes and then became a tool wherein nobility who were under the tutelage of Rome could gain more financial and political autonomy. We cover the various reasons for the spread of Protestantism including the role of the printing press, college students, and the incentive structure of the northern European nobility. Prof. Stark also notes that Protestantism was not a movement among the lower classes of society given that the poor typically did not attend church in this era. The “myth of medieval piety” is important for understanding why our contemporary era is not witnessing a decline in religiosity, but instead is greater than it ever has been. Our attention then turns to how Luther and Calvin’s schismatic movements challenged the Roman Catholic Church, allowing the “Church of Piety” to finally get the upper hand on the “Church of Power” (a tension we noted in the second of this three-part podcastd series). This discussion also examines what occured (and did not occur) during the Spanish Inquisition and the various witchcraft trials it supposedly spawned. Another interesting consequence of the Protestant Reformation for the Catholic Church was the creation, for the first time, of seminary training as a means of educating priests in theology. Prior to this most priests were trained as “apprentices” and often did not even know the content of the Latin texts they were reciting. This provides clear evidence of how religious pluralism (or competition) helps to keep churches honest to their spiritual mission. Indeed, Prof. Stark notes that the Reformation helped to create, in the Catholic Church, the institution he had always wanted. Tony also adds to the discussion by talking about his own research on the Latin American Catholic Church and how the “reformation” was delayed by several hundred years in that region of the world. It was when Protestants started making gains in the middle part of the 20th century that helped to reform Catholicism there. Rod also lists a number of downsides of the Catholic Counter-Reformation including some problems for intellectual freedom and the Catholic view of commerce and entrepreneurial activity. We then look at the so-called “secularization” of northern Europe and Rod makes a fascinating claim that rather than there being a large drop in the level of Christian practice over the past 500 years, there really was very little Christian practice to begin with, therefore it is hard to argue that Europe is becoming increasingly secularized when it never was really all that religious to begin with, particularly among the popular classes. This discussion opens the door to our conversation of Christianity in the United States and why it has been particularly vibrant relative to the European scene. The main point that Rod makes here is that in the U.S. there is no established church, and hence each religious denomination has to “make it on its own” if it wants to succeed and this prompts a wide range of creativity amongst the clergy. We finish our conversation with Rod’s reflection on the future of faith in the US and he also provides some interesting tidbits from his forthcoming book, America’s Blessing: How Religion Benefits Everyone … Including Atheists. Recorded: September 21, 2012.

Research On Religion » New Atheists

David Bentley Hart on Atheist Delusions

Rod Stark on the Triumph of Christianity, Part III