Research On Religion » G.K. Chesterton

David Deavel on De Sales, Newman, Chesterton, and Hitchcock

tonygill — Sun, 18 Mar 2018 08:00:21 +0000

Location, location, location. That is the eternal cry of every real estate agent, and it proved prophetic for this week’s guest, Prof. David Deavel, an assistant professor of Catholic Studies at the University of St. Thomas — as he grew up an evangelical Christian in the shadow of Notre Dame, which gave him the foundation for later converting to Catholicism. And along the way, he became an expert on a number of Catholic saints, theologians, and writers, which is where our discussion winds today. And a winding road it is, starting with St. Francis De Sales, moving into John Henry Newman, off to G.K. Chesterton, and finally stopping with Alfred Hitchcock. This is a fun-filled and light-hearted look at a number of Catholic thinkers and their relationship to our modern world.

The conversation begins with a bit of the background on our guest, and an interesting fun fact that the city of St. Paul was once called “Pig’s Eye.” We learn much about how Prof. Deavel ended up thinking about everything from Catholic social thought to vampires and Harry Potter. After that, we get on to the primary topic at hand, which is Saint Francis De Sales, a priest who originally started out as a lawyer and who was also an avid rower back in the 16th century (and eventually passing in 1622). Prof. Deavel terms De Sales a “patron saint for our time” by observing that Francis threw himself into a very contentious environment in Switzerland several decades after the Protestant Reformation. Catholics were not all that popular in Geneva back then, thus De Sales had to figure out how to keep a low profile (once hiding in a tree for a full day), yet keep true to his love of spreading the Gospel. De Sales strategy was to show and live a life of love, and would often minister in local houses. His understanding that all Christians were holy was a thought that preceded the thinking of the Second Vatican Council’s emphasis on ecumenism by more than three centuries. David points out that in today’s world where politics has become a “blood sport” and all sorts of groups are locked in seemingly endless battle, De Sales message of tolerance is one that should be heralded. Francis De Sales eventually was promoted to bishop of Geneva and founded the Salesians religious order (or Visitation sisters).

We then move on to discuss John Henry Newman who lived for most of the 19th century and became an important figure in Catholic education. Experiencing a Christian conversion at age 16 and becoming an Anglican clergy member in the 1820s, Newman was a principal leader of the Oxford Movement that sought to return the Church of England to its Catholic roots. Though unsuccessful in returning the Anglican Church to Catholicism, Newman found himself converting to Catholicism in the mid-19th century, eventually becoming a Cardinal in the Church. We discuss his emphasis on education, culminating both in his work in Dublin, as well as his series of lectures that culminated in the work The Idea of a University which has heavily influenced Catholic higher education to this day. Although never having hidden in a tree like Francis De Sales, Cardinal Newman has been on the road to sainthood and is currently categorized as Blessed Newman, one step away from becoming an official saint. Our conversation turns then to G.K. Chesterton, another Catholic thinker that has occupied the mind of Dr. Deavel. He contrasts the irreligious early life of Chesterton with the two previous figures we discussed, but notes the similarities in how his faith was shaped early in adulthood, eventually culminating in his admission that he was Christian by age 26 and eventual conversion to Catholicism in 1922. We then veer into the world of Alfred Hitchcock who was influenced by Chesterton but took a much different religious trajectory. Prof. Deavel notes the religious influences in Hitchcock’s life and how he came back to Catholicism at the end of his life. Our conversation ends with some reflections by David on what this eclectic path of study he has taken has revealed to him over time. Recorded: February 23, 2018.

Prof. David Deavel’s Academia.edu page (where you can find his various articles).

LOGOS: A Journal of Catholic Thought and Culture.

The Catholic Controversy, by St. Francis De Sales.

Introduction to the Devout Life, by St. Francis De Sales.

The Idea of a University, by John Henry Newman.

Orthodoxy, by G.K. Chesterton.

“The Ballad of the White Horse,” by G.K. Chesterton.

Martin Luther Insult Generator (mentioned in podcast).

Pope Francis Insult Generator (also mentioned in podcast in an ecumenical spirit).

RELATED PODCASTS

Brian O’Neel on Saint Who? Some Holy Unknowns.

Brian O’Neel on the Saints of January.

Brian O’Neel on the Saints of February.

Jim Tonkowich on Converting to Catholicism.

Corey Olsen on J.R.R. Tolkien.

Louis Markos on the Poetry of Heaven and Hell.

Micah Watson on C.S. Lewis.

Louis Markos on the Poetry of Heaven & Hell (Encore Presentation)

tonygill — Sun, 23 Jul 2017 15:29:42 +0000

C.S. Lewis once noted that humans are the only species to fear their own dead. Not surprisingly, visions of the afterlife — or of heaven and hell — loom large within literature. Prof. Louis Markos, the Robert H. Ray Chair in the Humanities at Houston Baptist University, explains how these visions have changed over time, starting back with pre-Christian pagan writers such as Plato, and all the way through our contemporary period with an emphasis on C.S. Lewis. The interview also mingles in a variety of insights about how the great texts of Western Civilization are being taught today.

We begin the discussion with Dr. Markos making a case for why studying the classics is important. Tony admits that literature was never one of his favorite topics in school, and also has Lou explain to him the difference between poetry and prose. Poetry, we discover, does not necessarily mean words that rhyme, but rather a genre of writing where every word counts and there is extensive and deep use of metaphor, simile, and cadence. Lou proposes that while there is not merely one “correct reading” of poetry, there can be “wrong answers.” Tony reveals that his skepticism of literature emanated from a college course that seemingly read too much Freudian psychology into The Odyssey, which then launches Dr. Markos into a discussion of how poorly literature is often taught today.

The discussion of contemporary education in the area of literature then takes us to Dr. Markos’s book Heaven and Hell: Visions of the Afterlife in the Western Poetic Tradition. He notes that his goal is to bring Athens and Jerusalem together. Lou explains the difference between general revelation, wherein God speaks to all humans throughout history, and special revelation, wherein God specifically speaks through Jesus Christ. Christianity, he asserts, is not the only truth, but is the only complete truth. This allows him to note the importance of early pagan writers and the foundational influence they had on later writers such as Dante, Milton, and Lewis. It is at this point where Prof. Markos also explains why C.S. Lewis wrote that humans are the only species that fear the dead and what the difference is between fear of an imminent danger and fear of the unknown. It is the latter, in the form of what comes after life, that has motivated great literature throughout the ages.

The last half of our interview walks (or perhaps jogs) through nearly three millennia of literary history. Lou starts us with Homer’s epic poem, The Odyssey, which deals directly with Odysseus having to face death (though it is not clear in this epic work if the hero actually ventures into the afterlife or merely stands at its gates). Plato is next up, and although Plato banished the poets, Lou observes that this great Greek philosopher plants himself firmly in the poetic tradition as he tends to “lose himself” in myth after introducing a philosophic principle. Here we also see how the afterlife becomes a place of judgment, not just a destination, which in turn helps Plato to wrestle with the concept of justice. Moving to Rome we briefly pick up the work of Virgil who becomes a major influence on the likes of Dante. What is introduced here is that we are introduced into the souls of the great Romans who act out an eternal drama. It is no wonder, Lou mentions, that Dante then picks up on Virgil who Prof. Markos considers to be the climax of general revelation. Dante infuses this vision with the specific revelation of Christianity and develops the notion that hell is not just punishment for a sin, but that it is the sinner becoming sin — an explanation of what sin does to humans.

Time constraints forbid us from examining a number of other authors that Prof. Markos discusses in his work (e.g., Milton), and so we jump up to the (relatively) contemporary period and C.S. Lewis where Lou reveals that his favorite work of that author is The Great Divorce. Lou discusses how Lewis builds upon Dante and gives us a psychology of sin by using the story of the grumbling old lady on the bus from hell. He points out that “the grumbler” really is nothing more than a “grumble” herself, leaving little to save on the road to heaven. The intellectual challenge of that work is how all but one of the characters, when offered a choice of heaven and hell, choose the latter revealing how the process of sin is really the hell we face; hell is not just a single destination. We finish with an interesting observation about how evangelical Christians, who used to be very skeptical of reading non-Christian authors, are once again embracing these classics at a time when The Academy may be abandoning them. Lou offers the analogy of building a bridge between the pre-Christian and Christian eras and its important for general and special revelation. Recorded: July 6, 2015.

RELATED LINKS

Prof. Louis Markos’ website over at The City Online, a website hosted by Houston Baptist University.

Lou Markos’ bio at HBU’s Department of English and Modern Languages.

Heaven & Hell: Visions of the Afterlife in the Western Poetic Tradition, by Louis Markos.

From Achilles to Christ: Why Christians Should Read the Pagan Classics, by Louis Markos.

The Eye of the Beholder: How to See the World Like a Romantic Poet, by Louis Markos.

On the Shoulders of Hobbits: The Road to Virtue in Tolkien and Lewis, by Louis Markos.

C.S. Lewis: An Apologist for Education, by Louis Markos.

The Great Divorce, by C.S. Lewis (mentioned in podcast).

RELATED PODCASTS

John Mark Reynolds on A Christmas Carol.

Jason Jewell on Why Christians Should Read the Great Books.

Pamela Edwards on Samuel Taylor Coleridge.

Corey Olsen on J.R.R. Tolkien, Religion, and the Hobbit.

Hunter Baker on the Future of Higher Education.

Joseph Castleberry on the New Pilgrims

tonygill — Sun, 20 Sep 2015 08:00:57 +0000

What role are immigrants to the United States playing in America’s religious landscape? Dr. Joseph Castleberry, president of Northwest University (Kirkland, WA), examines this question and discusses his recently-published book The New Pilgrims. While many pundits and commentators have focused on the role of immigration in labor markets, Dr. Castleberry adds to the conversation by showing how newcomers to our country have helped to revitalize our spiritual lives, both historically and in the present.

Tony first asks Joseph how he was able to research and write a book whilst also serving as the president of a growing university. Dr. Castleberry replies that because he has such a great staff and doesn’t have any direct teaching duties, he was able to pick up on a topic that has interested him for a long time. His experience as a missionary abroad informs many of his views on this topic and he brings fresh insights to the table. We then turn briefly to the contemporary religious landscape in America and Tony asks Joseph about his thoughts on the increase of “religious nones.” This facet of the conversation (and Castleberry’s book) is important to understand how people from around the world bring their own faiths with them and reshape and revitalize America’s spiritual life, both in terms of religion as we normally think of it, but also in terms of America’s “civic religion.” Joseph explains his thoughts here and notes that immigrants have always played an important role in various “great awakenings” in U.S. history.

We move next to a discussion of the dimensions of contemporary immigration, exploring both the demographics of the people who are coming, and their reasons for wanting to make the United States their home. Dr. Castleberry then provides a number of examples of how these “new pilgrims” are reshaping our cultural landscape with stories of students from his own university (Northwest) and places where immigrant churches are being planted or working in conjunction with existing denominations to “re-missionize” America. We finish with some of Dr. Castleberry’s thoughts on the current political conflict surrounding immigration issues and how this affects notions of Lex Rex (or the rule of law). He adds his thoughts on how Christians should be responding to all of this. Recorded: September 14, 2015.

The New Pilgrims: How Immigrants Are Renewing America’s Faith and Values, by Joseph Castleberry.

Joseph Castleberry’s blog in English and Spanish.

Joseph Castleberry on Twitter.

The Kingdom Net: Learning to Network Like Jesus, by Joseph Castleberry.

Your Deepest Dream, by Joseph Castleberry.

RELATED PODCASTS

Joseph Castleberry on Religious-Based Higher Education.

Rajdeep Singh on American Sikhs and Religious Liberty.

Bradley Wright on Religion, Race, and Discrimination.

Michael Foley on Religion and Booze

tonygill — Sun, 03 May 2015 08:00:35 +0000

How do you take your religion — straight up or on the rocks? Either way, it is time to get your drink on with this out-of-the-ordinary podcast. We talk with Prof. Michael P. Foley of Baylor University’s Great Texts Program about his new book Drinking with the Saints: A Sinner’s Guide to a Holy Happy Hour. We cover a wide range of topics from the history of alcohol in the Bible to some brand new cocktail recipes. This interview is filled with fun facts, spiritual insights, and a wide variety of other surprises, a perfect pairing with whatever you might be drinking at the moment! (Visit our Facebook page for a few of Prof. Foley’s original recipes.)

We begin by asking Prof. Foley how he came to write such a book and he shares how alcohol when consumed in moderation can be a very pleasing experience and is often associated with great fellowship. Michael cautions us that this is not a book on debauchery, but rather is a way to savor the fine things in life and learn about the connection between alcohol and religion. He jumps into a number of “fun facts” about this relationship, noting how alcohol was rather important in bygone eras because it was an important alternative to drinking water that often contained many pathogens. He then reviews some of the places where alcohol can be found in The Bible, starting in the Old Testament with Noah. Fan of bar trivia will be thrilled with a number of other interesting references he makes between religion and booze throughout the ages, including the role of Trapist monks in brewing beer, Irish missionaries and their introduction of whiskey to Scotland, a magical liqueur, and the story of how one member of the clergy announced his invention of champagne. Tony becomes dismayed by the lack of rum in religious history, but his faith is rekindled by a mention of a “Mexican eggnog” (rompope).

A quote from G.K. Chesterton helps to transition us to a brief discussion on Prohibition, and Prof. Foley discusses why this movement may have become to be associated with evangelical religion, and possibly a few anti-Catholic sentiments. From that point, we move to the alcohols of the liturgical calendar. Starting with Advent, working through Christmas and then through Easter, we cover some of the favorite adult beverages associated with these celebrations. Along the way, we learn a bit about Fat Tuesday and Lent, and how abstaining from alcohol was not necessarily the historical thing to give up during the latter religious season. Indeed, Michael tells the story of how beer — particularly a dopplebock — became connected to Lent given its “nutritional” qualities. We learn about a more contemporary experiment in getting through Lent on beer, and beer alone. Easter and the Pentecost, we discover, are not particularly associated with any specific drink.

Next, we take a look at how some saints have been affiliated with certain drinks and, with a tip of the hat to RoR regular guest Brian O’Neel, we review some of the Catholic saints of May. It is at this point where Michael begins to reveal some of his own personal recipes that can be found in his book, several of which are named after saints. He explains how he came about choosing the ingredients of these drinks based upon the lives of these religious personalities. Moreover, Tony learns the difference between a mixed drink and a cocktail, and the rules that differentiate them. Michael also shares his fondness for shaking cocktails, as opposed to stirring, and why chards of chipped ice add to the pleasure of various beverages. Listen to his secret recipes or visit us at Facebook for the ingredient list, perhaps taking a sip or two while listening to this podcast!

Our interview finishes off with some final reflections about what Michael has learned from his process of researching and writing this book. Recorded: April 20, 2015.

Drinking with the Saints website (with a blog, Instagram, and other cool stuff).

Drinking with the Saints: The Sinner’s Guide to Holy Happy Hour, by Michael P. Foley (at Amazon.com)

Why Do Catholics Eat Fish on Friday?: The Catholic Origin to Just About Everything, by Michael P. Foley.

Wedding Rites: The Complete Guide to Traditional Vows, Music, Ceremonies, Blessings, and Interfaith Services, by Michael P. Foley.

Confessions, by St. Augustine (with commentary by Michael P. Foley).

RELATED PODCASTS

Brian O’Neel on the Saints of February.

Brian O’Neel on the Saints of January.

Brian O’Neel on Saint Who? Some Holy Unknowns.

Jim Tonkowich on Converting to Catholicism

tonygill — Sun, 07 Dec 2014 09:00:23 +0000

After serving in the Presbyterian ministry for over two decades, our guest Jim Tonkowich, former president of the Institute on Religion & Democracy, made the decision to convert to Catholicism. We follow Jim’s journey in this interview that is part personal reflection and part sociological look at the state of Christianity today.

We begin our discussion by going back to Jim’s early upbringing and learn that his family was rooted in the Russian Orthodox Church. His curiosity in religion, though, was piqued while attending boarding school in Connecticut when he purchased a Bible and began reading it. Finding this reading difficult on his own he began participating in a Bible study group and also attended a “Ski and Skeptics” program that helped him to start making sense of Christianity, much the way a the box top picture on a jigsaw puzzle helps one align the pieces. We follow him through his college career at Bates College and his further investigations into theology and philosophy. At this point in his life, he is still not a Roman Catholic.

Jim’s varied travels them take him to Gordon Cromwell Theological Seminary where he begins studying for the ministry. His own religious participation at this time involved a non-denominational Protestant congregation and participation at Park Street Congregational Church where he met both his wife and Marcus Grodi (also a Protestant who would later “make the journey home” to Catholicism). It is at this point in the interview we begin a conversation about church polity — i.e., how congregations are organized in terms of authority structure. This theme appears numerous times in our discussion and is one of the key pieces to understanding Jim’s conversion to Catholicism. Jim also reveals how he read the early Church Fathers and how that influenced his long-term thought process.

Following seminary we then move cross-country to a Presbyterian church in Silicon Valley, California. We discuss Jim’s experiences as a pastor here as well as the various challenges that ministers face in their profession. While Jim was pleased with the folks in that congregation, he talks about the professional grind and loneliness that often accompanies the pastorate. It is at this point where he brings up the issue of pastoral formation — preparing clergy for the tough road ahead — and mentions that the Catholic Church tends to excel at this task relative to its Protestant counterparts. Again, we start to see the pieces of the conversion puzzle start to fall into place. We develop a sense that Jim’s conversion wasn’t a Pauline “flash of light on the road to Damascus,” but rather a long and intellectually-engaging path.

After his ministerial stint in California, it is back to the Washington DC area where he shares a number of other stories regarding a variety of experiences, including an interesting interview he had with a few Presbyterians and the questions of whether Catholics need to be rebaptized if they move in a Protestant direction. Here we reflect a bit upon attitudes towards Catholics and how this challenged Jim’s thinking further. We also return to the question of orthodoxy and church polity at this point before finally learning more about the final pieces to his Catholic conversion that involved his son attending Thomas Aquinas College and bringing a group of friends home from California, an event that led him into the National Basilica for Mass and a great sermon “worshipping among the nations.” We further go into a wide range of topics involving connections with other intellectuals who converted Catholic (e.g., Frances Beckwith, Robby George) and a number of other interesting topics related to theology and church organization.

The podcast finishes with a few of Jim’s insights from his e-book How (Not) to Become Catholic, which is a humorous self-reflection of his journey and a variety of mistakes he and others often make when looking across the Catholic-Protestant divide. Recorded: November 7. 2014.

RELATED LINKS

Jim Tonkowich’s web page (including biography another links)

How (Not) to Become Catholic, by James Tonkowich (an e-book on becoming Catholic)

The Liberty Threat: The Attack on Religious Freedom in America Today, by James Tonkowich.

The Coming Home Network International (mentioned in the podcast)

The Institute for Religion and Democracy (where Jim was the former president).

Called to the Ministry, by Edmund Clowney (mentioned in the podcast)

Wyoming Catholic College (mentioned in the podcast)

RELATED PODCASTS

Tim Kelleher on the Nicene Creed.

Jim Papandrea on the Church Fathers & Patristic Exegesis.

David Gallagher on Opus Dei.

William Donohue on Secular Sabotage.