We begin the discussion with Dr. Markos making a case for why studying the classics is important.  Tony admits that literature was never one of his favorite topics in school, and also has Lou explain to him the difference between poetry and prose.  Poetry, we discover, does not necessarily mean words that rhyme, but rather a genre of writing where every word counts and there is extensive and deep use of metaphor, simile, and cadence.  Lou proposes that while there is not merely one “correct reading” of poetry, there can be “wrong answers.”  Tony reveals that his skepticism of literature emanated from a college course that seemingly read too much Freudian psychology into The Odyssey, which then launches Dr. Markos into a discussion of how poorly literature is often taught today.

The discussion of contemporary education in the area of literature then takes us to Dr. Markos’s book Heaven and Hell: Visions of the Afterlife in the Western Poetic Tradition.  He notes that his goal is to bring Athens and Jerusalem together.  Lou explains the difference between general revelation, wherein God speaks to all humans throughout history, and special revelation, wherein God specifically speaks through Jesus Christ.  Christianity, he asserts, is not the only truth, but is the only complete truth.  This allows him to note the importance of early pagan writers and the foundational influence they had on later writers such as Dante, Milton, and Lewis.  It is at this point where Prof. Markos also explains why C.S. Lewis wrote that humans are the only species that fear the dead and what the difference is between fear of an imminent danger and fear of the unknown.  It is the latter, in the form of what comes after life, that has motivated great literature throughout the ages.

The last half of our interview walks (or perhaps jogs) through nearly three millennia of literary history.  Lou starts us with Homer’s epic poem, The Odyssey, which deals directly with Odysseus having to face death (though it is not clear in this epic work if the hero actually ventures into the afterlife or merely stands at its gates).  Plato is next up, and although Plato banished the poets, Lou observes that this great Greek philosopher plants himself firmly in the poetic tradition as he tends to “lose himself” in myth after introducing a philosophic principle.  Here we also see how the afterlife becomes a place of judgment, not just a destination, which in turn helps Plato to wrestle with the concept of justice.  Moving to Rome we briefly pick up the work of Virgil who becomes a major influence on the likes of Dante.  What is introduced here is that we are introduced into the souls of the great Romans who act out an eternal drama.  It is no wonder, Lou mentions, that Dante then picks up on Virgil who Prof. Markos considers to be the climax of general revelation.  Dante infuses this vision with the specific revelation of Christianity and develops the notion that hell is not just punishment for a sin, but that it is the sinner becoming sin — an explanation of what sin does to humans.

Time constraints forbid us from examining a number of other authors that Prof. Markos discusses in his work (e.g., Milton), and so we jump up to the (relatively) contemporary period and C.S. Lewis where Lou reveals that his favorite work of that author is The Great Divorce.   Lou discusses how Lewis builds upon Dante and gives us a psychology of sin by using the story of the grumbling old lady on the bus from hell.  He points out that “the grumbler” really is nothing more than a “grumble” herself, leaving little to save on the road to heaven.  The intellectual challenge of that work is how all but one of the characters, when offered a choice of heaven and hell, choose the latter revealing how the process of sin is really the hell we face; hell is not just a single destination.  We finish with an interesting observation about how evangelical Christians, who used to be very skeptical of reading non-Christian authors, are once again embracing these classics at a time when The Academy may be abandoning them.  Lou offers the analogy of building a bridge between the pre-Christian and Christian eras and its important for general and special revelation.  Recorded: July 6, 2015.

RELATED LINKS

Prof. Louis Markos’ website over at The City Online, a website hosted by Houston Baptist University.

Lou Markos’ bio at HBU’s Department of English and Modern Languages.

Heaven & Hell: Visions of the Afterlife in the Western Poetic Tradition, by Louis Markos.

From Achilles to Christ: Why Christians Should Read the Pagan Classics, by Louis Markos.

The Eye of the Beholder: How to See the World Like a Romantic Poet, by Louis Markos.

On the Shoulders of Hobbits: The Road to Virtue in Tolkien and Lewis, by Louis Markos.

C.S. Lewis: An Apologist for Education, by Louis Markos.

The Great Divorce, by C.S. Lewis (mentioned in podcast).

RELATED PODCASTS

John Mark Reynolds on A Christmas Carol.

Jason Jewell on Why Christians Should Read the Great Books.

Pamela Edwards on Samuel Taylor Coleridge.

Corey Olsen on J.R.R. Tolkien, Religion, and the Hobbit.

Hunter Baker on the Future of Higher Education.

[NOTE: We here at Research on Religion are trying out a new, condensed description of our podcasts, thus the format above is shorter than in the past.  This is, hopefully, to save the editor a bit of time and to incentivize our visitors to give a listen to the guests in their own words.]

RELATED LINKS

Nancy Ellen Abrams’ personal website including biography.

A God that Could Be Real: Spirituality, Science, and the Future of Our Planet, by Nancy Ellen Abrams.

The View from the Center of Our Universe: Discovering Our Extraordinary Place in the Cosmos, by Joel R. Primack and Nancy Ellen Abrams.

The New Universe and the Human Future, by Nancy Ellen Abrams and Joel R. Primack.

RELATED PODCASTS

Stephen Barr on Quantum Physics, Religion, and the God Particle.

Rob Moll on Religion and the Brain.

We begin the discussion with Dr. Markos making a case for why studying the classics is important.  Tony admits that literature was never one of his favorite topics in school, and also has Lou explain to him the difference between poetry and prose.  Poetry, we discover, does not necessarily mean words that rhyme, but rather a genre of writing where every word counts and there is extensive and deep use of metaphor, simile, and cadence.  Lou proposes that while there is not merely one “correct reading” of poetry, there can be “wrong answers.”  Tony reveals that his skepticism of literature emanated from a college course that seemingly read too much Freudian psychology into The Odyssey, which then launches Dr. Markos into a discussion of how poorly literature is often taught today.

The discussion of contemporary education in the area of literature then takes us to Dr. Markos’s book Heaven and Hell: Visions of the Afterlife in the Western Poetic Tradition.  He notes that his goal is to bring Athens and Jerusalem together.  Lou explains the difference between general revelation, wherein God speaks to all humans throughout history, and special revelation, wherein God specifically speaks through Jesus Christ.  Christianity, he asserts, is not the only truth, but is the only complete truth.  This allows him to note the importance of early pagan writers and the foundational influence they had on later writers such as Dante, Milton, and Lewis.  It is at this point where Prof. Markos also explains why C.S. Lewis wrote that humans are the only species that fear the dead and what the difference is between fear of an imminent danger and fear of the unknown.  It is the latter, in the form of what comes after life, that has motivated great literature throughout the ages.

The last half of our interview walks (or perhaps jogs) through nearly three millennia of literary history.  Lou starts us with Homer’s epic poem, The Odyssey, which deals directly with Odysseus having to face death (though it is not clear in this epic work if the hero actually ventures into the afterlife or merely stands at its gates).  Plato is next up, and although Plato banished the poets, Lou observes that this great Greek philosopher plants himself firmly in the poetic tradition as he tends to “lose himself” in myth after introducing a philosophic principle.  Here we also see how the afterlife becomes a place of judgment, not just a destination, which in turn helps Plato to wrestle with the concept of justice.  Moving to Rome we briefly pick up the work of Virgil who becomes a major influence on the likes of Dante.  What is introduced here is that we are introduced into the souls of the great Romans who act out an eternal drama.  It is no wonder, Lou mentions, that Dante then picks up on Virgil who Prof. Markos considers to be the climax of general revelation.  Dante infuses this vision with the specific revelation of Christianity and develops the notion that hell is not just punishment for a sin, but that it is the sinner becoming sin — an explanation of what sin does to humans.

Time constraints forbid us from examining a number of other authors that Prof. Markos discusses in his work (e.g., Milton), and so we jump up to the (relatively) contemporary period and C.S. Lewis where Lou reveals that his favorite work of that author is The Great Divorce.   Lou discusses how Lewis builds upon Dante and gives us a psychology of sin by using the story of the grumbling old lady on the bus from hell.  He points out that “the grumbler” really is nothing more than a “grumble” herself, leaving little to save on the road to heaven.  The intellectual challenge of that work is how all but one of the characters, when offered a choice of heaven and hell, choose the latter revealing how the process of sin is really the hell we face; hell is not just a single destination.  We finish with an interesting observation about how evangelical Christians, who used to be very skeptical of reading non-Christian authors, are once again embracing these classics at a time when The Academy may be abandoning them.  Lou offers the analogy of building a bridge between the pre-Christian and Christian eras and its important for general and special revelation.  Recorded: July 6, 2015.

RELATED LINKS

Prof. Louis Markos’ website over at The City Online, a website hosted by Houston Baptist University.

Lou Markos’ bio at HBU’s Department of English and Modern Languages.

Heaven & Hell: Visions of the Afterlife in the Western Poetic Tradition, by Louis Markos.

From Achilles to Christ: Why Christians Should Read the Pagan Classics, by Louis Markos.

The Eye of the Beholder: How to See the World Like a Romantic Poet, by Louis Markos.

On the Shoulders of Hobbits: The Road to Virtue in Tolkien and Lewis, by Louis Markos.

C.S. Lewis: An Apologist for Education, by Louis Markos.

The Great Divorce, by C.S. Lewis (mentioned in podcast).

RELATED PODCASTS

John Mark Reynolds on A Christmas Carol.

Jason Jewell on Why Christians Should Read the Great Books.

Pamela Edwards on Samuel Taylor Coleridge.

Corey Olsen on J.R.R. Tolkien, Religion, and the Hobbit.

Hunter Baker on the Future of Higher Education.

]]> http://www.researchonreligion.org/historical-topics/louis-markos-on-the-poetry-of-heaven-hell/feed 0 http://www.researchonreligion.org/historical-topics/gary-richardson-on-religion-craft-guilds-in-the-middle-ages http://www.researchonreligion.org/historical-topics/gary-richardson-on-religion-craft-guilds-in-the-middle-ages#comments Sun, 02 Nov 2014 09:00:06 +0000 http://www.researchonreligion.org/?p=3544 Economic historians have long studied and examined the importance of medieval craft guilds on the economic development of Europe.  But what importance, if any, did religion play in the formation and maintenance of these professional organizations?  Dr. Gary Richardson, professor of economics at the University of California – Irvine, explains that religious belief and ritual were crucial components of guilds in the 14th through 16th century (and much later in many Catholic countries).

Prof. Richardson, who is known for his research on 19th and 20th century banking crises, begins by explaining how he came to become interested in medieval guilds as a graduate student.  More importantly, he discusses how he came to include religion in his analysis.  While examining primary documents related to 14th century guilds, he noted that a majority of these documents were devoted to religious issues and themes.  While some scholars in the humanities have known this for some time, economists studying the topic largely ignored these writings in favor of the slim portion of the documents devoted to what one might consider more typical economic content (e.g., issues on physical goods output).  Gary had a hunch that this extensive discussion of religion was more than just casual, and may have played an important function in the organization of professional groups.

Following his hunch, Gary discovered that many of these guilds originated from prayer societies.  It was common for local groups of individuals to gather and pray for salvation and the souls of friends and relatives who were deceased.  In an age when the doctrine of purgatory was widely accepted, such prayers held great importance to individuals as witnessed by the significant amount of resources that people would devote to ensuring salvation.  Not surprisingly, since certain industries tended to be located in the same place in town for practical reasons — e.g., blacksmiths would all exist in one area to concentrate the smoke and noise (a medieval form of “zoning”) — it was common for people engaged in the same occupation to gather together for worship and prayer.  Religious social gatherings would likely include discussion of professional activities and the collective action created for religious purposes naturally made it easier for members of the same profession to coordinate their more secular business dealings.

We spend some time discussing what guilds back in the Middle Ages did and how they helped to preserve the reputational quality of the industry.  Gary uses the manufacture of pewter in London as a classic example of how craftsmen needed to preserve their reputation.  While most pewter of the time contained lead and would tarnish after a certain time, London pewter was known for its high quality and resistance to tarnish.  Instead of using lead, these pewter makers used tin and a few other alloys to create a highly desired product, albeit one that was a bit more costly to make.  However, since London pewter commanded a higher price on the market, individual manufacturers had an incentive to sneak in lead to their product so as to maximize their profits.  When such “cheating” became known, the reputation of all pewter makers tended to suffer.  Thus, the guild had to devise ways to monitor and punish individual manufacturers who added lead to their product

Religion served as a powerful means of dissuading individuals from cheating.  First, we learn that it extended the benefits that accrue from cooperation into the afterlife.  While cheating for short-term gain in the present is tempting, losing the prayers for one’s soul while in purgatory discouraged people from cheating in the present.  Second, the social networking that occurred in weekly religious gatherings and contributions to regular pageants, plays, and processions also helped guild members monitor each other’s commitment.  Gary also discusses how the Black Death changed the dynamic of this arrangement, making religious cooperation under the threat of a “random” early death all the more worrisome for individual guild members.  We finish by talking about how the Protestant Reformation (in continental Europe and England) changed the incentive calculations and led religion to become less connected to craft guilds over time.  Recorded: October 28, 2014

RELATED LINKS

Gary Richardson’s bio and personal webpage at UC-Irvine Department of Economics.

Gary Richardson’s papers at National Bureau of Economic Research.

The Parish Gilds [sic] of Medieval England, by H.F. Westlake (mentioned in podcast).

RELATED PODCASTS

Larry Iannaccone on Sacrifice, Stigma, and the Economics of Religion.

Mike McBride on the Economics of Religious Leadership.

Mike McBride on Religious Free-Riding and the Mormon Church.

Colleen Haight on the Oracle of Delphi.

Larry Witham on the Economics of Religion.

Sarah Bond on the Church and Funerals in Late Antiquity.

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